Is LH playing married segments games?
Aug 20, 2022, 11:56 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,943
Is LH playing married segments games?
Hello,
I am looking to book a return ticket Middle East-FRA-LAX for September (revenue ticket) in biz. While both segments individually show availability ("J9"), the availability disappears when booking the segments as married segments.
I have not observed this happening for last 20 years (sometimes availability was off only by minor seat capacity, as per Expertflyer).
Anyone recently observed the same?
Best,
CalFlyer
I am looking to book a return ticket Middle East-FRA-LAX for September (revenue ticket) in biz. While both segments individually show availability ("J9"), the availability disappears when booking the segments as married segments.
I have not observed this happening for last 20 years (sometimes availability was off only by minor seat capacity, as per Expertflyer).
Anyone recently observed the same?
Best,
CalFlyer
Aug 20, 2022, 12:32 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
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This is normal. Happens all the time. Common for the route you mention.
Sometimes there is a way around it using codeshares and combinations thereof, such as LH/UA combos. Have you tried that?
Sometimes there is a way around it using codeshares and combinations thereof, such as LH/UA combos. Have you tried that?
Aug 20, 2022, 12:54 pm
#3
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Usually seat 1A, home:Tallinn
Programs: LH -- HON Circle **, IHG Spire Elite, Hilton Diamond, 1865 Voyager
Posts: 470
Hello,
I am looking to book a return ticket Middle East-FRA-LAX for September (revenue ticket) in biz. While both segments individually show availability ("J9"), the availability disappears when booking the segments as married segments.
I have not observed this happening for last 20 years (sometimes availability was off only by minor seat capacity, as per Expertflyer).
Anyone recently observed the same?
Best,
CalFlyer
I am looking to book a return ticket Middle East-FRA-LAX for September (revenue ticket) in biz. While both segments individually show availability ("J9"), the availability disappears when booking the segments as married segments.
I have not observed this happening for last 20 years (sometimes availability was off only by minor seat capacity, as per Expertflyer).
Anyone recently observed the same?
Best,
CalFlyer
I think it is originally related to different pricing for different markets. And more and more smart revenue-maximising-robots.
Aug 20, 2022, 1:16 pm
#4
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while in this example no help with J ... in coach LH has V available but UA codeshares (same flights) offers down to W. Always worth checking these combos.
Aug 20, 2022, 1:39 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,774
It is common normal everyday practice for at least last 5 years. Actually also earlier, but systems are now much smarter and made go-arounds almost not possible.
I think it is originally related to different pricing for different markets. And more and more smart revenue-maximising-robots.
I think it is originally related to different pricing for different markets. And more and more smart revenue-maximising-robots.
I've seen similar examples for F too. F is available on JNB-FRA and FRA-LAX, but not on JNB-LAX. That's basically telling me to go book AF or something.
Aug 20, 2022, 2:15 pm
#6
formerly a193991
Join Date: Dec 2014
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I agree that the point of married segment inventory control is to maximize revenue by market. But I understood OP to be saying that LH is showing J9 for their individual flight segments, but J0 for the entire itinerary, meaning LH won't even sell a business class ticket. Am I right? If so, that is an odd revenue-minimizing move, I'd say!
I've seen similar examples for F too. F is available on JNB-FRA and FRA-LAX, but not on JNB-LAX. That's basically telling me to go book AF or something.
I've seen similar examples for F too. F is available on JNB-FRA and FRA-LAX, but not on JNB-LAX. That's basically telling me to go book AF or something.
buying power massively higher than in South Africa.
and LH is bound to fully sell each flight individually in F, hence 0 availability for the MS and getting more revenue.
Aug 20, 2022, 8:39 pm
#7
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maximizing revenue could mean that LH will get more revenue on a pure FRA-LAX flight than JNB-FRA-LAX.
buying power massively higher than in South Africa.
and LH is bound to fully sell each flight individually in F, hence 0 availability for the MS and getting more revenue.
buying power massively higher than in South Africa.
and LH is bound to fully sell each flight individually in F, hence 0 availability for the MS and getting more revenue.
Aug 21, 2022, 2:06 am
#8
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Lufthansa is not playing this game, they are the evil masterminds of pricing integrity.
The easy trick to play them: stop-overs. I just bought an A fare from BUD to Asia for next to no money (by todays pricing standards) and without the stop-over it would be next to impossible to find any availability.
The easy trick to play them: stop-overs. I just bought an A fare from BUD to Asia for next to no money (by todays pricing standards) and without the stop-over it would be next to impossible to find any availability.
Aug 21, 2022, 8:47 am
#9
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
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The stopver usually costs 100-150$ each time so bank wins in any case 
Married segment control came into noticeable play sometime in 2009. Back then penalties for agents trying to outsmart the system appeared for the first time too.
Married segment control came into noticeable play sometime in 2009. Back then penalties for agents trying to outsmart the system appeared for the first time too.
Aug 21, 2022, 9:56 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Yes. Its possible for clever travel agents to outsmart the system (although its noticeably harder than a few years ago), however they do risk being fined by LH
Aug 21, 2022, 10:18 am
#11
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Aug 21, 2022, 11:56 pm
#12
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Mileageplus
Posts: 254
I agree that the point of married segment inventory control is to maximize revenue by market. But I understood OP to be saying that LH is showing J9 for their individual flight segments, but J0 for the entire itinerary, meaning LH won't even sell a business class ticket. Am I right? If so, that is an odd revenue-minimizing move, I'd say!
I've seen similar examples for F too. F is available on JNB-FRA and FRA-LAX, but not on JNB-LAX. That's basically telling me to go book AF or something.
I've seen similar examples for F too. F is available on JNB-FRA and FRA-LAX, but not on JNB-LAX. That's basically telling me to go book AF or something.
Married segments are a pain and the workarounds are few if any. Some carriers even marry segments beyond just connections. The airlines have their own logic and they wouldnt be doing this if it were costing them revenue.
Aug 22, 2022, 1:27 am
#13
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I feel for travel agents and how they are held hostage by Lufthansa. That's why I call the Lufthansa First Class Hotline and book all my A fares with them directly. I can throw away last segments, do cross-bookings and Lufthansa hasn't sent themselves any debit memos yet. They also haven't sent me a single letter voicing their displeasure yet. I guess they know who I am 
And to be a bit more specific than oliver2002 : D and A fares don't come with silly stop-over fees. My last D fare from Europe to Asia included a total of 4 stop-overs and total price was 1.700 EUR including taxes.
And to be a bit more specific than oliver2002 : D and A fares don't come with silly stop-over fees. My last D fare from Europe to Asia included a total of 4 stop-overs and total price was 1.700 EUR including taxes.
Aug 22, 2022, 4:27 am
#15
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ANC is non-refundable, ARC is refundable for a fee and AFF is fully refundable without any fees.
People don't have to compromise if they are willing to pay a little bit more.