bertheike

I compared simply 3 flights on 3 websites ( LH / SQ /CX ) checked yesterday for a flight next week monday until wednesdays for 2 days stay. That means same conditions.
LH was FRA-MAD
CX was BKK-HKG
SQ was BKK-SIN

If you booked business for 375 Euro, you sure booked long time in advance, and the fare is in P and not flexible @ all. This kind of offers other airlines also offer. But you can not compare apples with pears.
My post was most about the value you get out of a business class flight in Europe with LH and in Asia with CX or SQ.
And if you compare under the same conditions, LH is more expensive, and the seatproduct is the same as in eco.

thbe

You can get a LH ticket FRA-MAD-FRA in business on Oct 9-11 for EUR 499,50 as well.

It's never a good idea to book a flight a few days in adavnce anyway. If I book FRA-FCO-FRA on LH business in 2 weeks, I can get it for EUR 369,-.

I'm flying LH business within Europe quite often. And I'm the approver for flights for some dozens of guys who are used to fly often too. It's possible to fly LH business within Europe for EUR 1,000 to 1,200, but that's well above average.

Believe me, your data is just wrong.

And if you compare an European airline with a huge short-haul fleet to Asian airlines with much smaller short-haul fleets, you are comparing apples with pears anyway.

schrodingerdog

The security at FRA and MUC is not responsibility of LH, is provided (subcontracted) by the federal police of Germany.

As for airlines using wide-bodies in Europe, you can literally count them with the fingers of your hand:
* 1 rotation MAD-LHR daily operated by IB A340/A330
* 1 rotation LHR-MAD operated by BA 777 (not always)
* Some rotations IST-Turkey TK A330/B777
* Some rotations MAD - Canary Islands operated by UX A330/B787
* 1 rotation HEL-LHR daily by AY A350
* Charter flights from UK to Spain / Portugal in high-demand routes.
And very few more

SpewyMcSpew

Uhhhhh, LH does not have any 2-3-2 set up in business numbnuts.

Fabo.sk

It's not that bad actually, OS uses 767 and 777 commonly to FRA and I've seen BA widebodies in more places around Europe.

But yes, it's much more so that frequency is the king, and that means 4 daily A320s rather than 1 A320 and 1 777 or something.

Also noteworthy: Europe has a much better surface transport situation comapred with SE Asia.

bertheike

I not want to fight about which prices we compare.
Asian Airlines ( CX,SQ or TG ) also have special rates for booking far in advance. I only wanted to compare 3 offers under same conditions, which has been
booking in a few days, only 2 days and not over a weekend. That's what company's normaly doing.
And my post was pointing that in " my eys " LH and other European airlines offering much less value for $$$, if you compare this with Asian airlines. And LUFTHANSA complains the sales with premium customers in the last years is going down much, specially within European routes. This in my eys is a result from them cutting down everything. As already pointed out, why someone should pay a lot more for so less value. Not only airlines have to cut costs, other company's too. And private people, ( which still have to work for them $$$ ) , even more think for what them spend it.

MichielR

In the B744 second main deck cabin they have 2-3-2 indeed. So no need to go personal against the poster you quoted. Still, that’s only a handful of seats compared to the total of 2-2-2 or 2-2 UD C seats.

ohiosux

Well, I'm pretty sure you can at least have Do&Co food in OS, LX, and TK business; which is pretty awesome when you're looking for any differentiators within EU.

NewbieRunner

Not on LX AFAIK.

mlin32

For those of us who don't have the pay grade to book flights for work on business (me.....), I did two TATL flights over two weeks, both in Y. Work paid for the LH flight the previous week, the AF flight I booked for my own personal travel. As suspected, AF on the A380 was more comfortable, better service, better food.......but this is just my experiences.

I found it funny that while waiting for my AF flight, the LH 401 flight was delayed by 2h in the next gate. The same flight I took 6 months ago, which was also delayed when I flew it

NewbieRunner

A delay of 2h is unusual but LH401 regularly departs late since transatlantic flights from west to east often arrive too early because of the jet stream. On most days LH401 arrives earlier than the scheduled arrival time of 5:40AM although it may have left JFK 30-40 minutes late. Because of the nighttime curfew at FRA planes cannot land before 5AM.

Grog

I can add my two cents in comparing LH economy to WOW Air economy.

Referencing the OP's main points, WOW Air provides an excellent example of Lufthansa's overrated economy experience.

A recent booking from BWI to FRA.

Lufthansa's lowest eco fare was 3x (yes, triple!) the "eco plus" fare of WOW air. And no, there were no extra fees for luggage: this WOW tariff (WOW Plus) included 3 bags (one checked bag, one carry-on--of 26 pounds!), and one personal item) and seat reservation.

So, despite having SEN status, we booked WOW Air to see what they'll all about.

First, beautiful new and very clean A321. And roomy in the seat, offering 31"+ seat pitch. On their A321, it's the exact same seat frame used by LH.

Without paying more (and obviously independent of freq flyer status), we received their super-extra-legroom seats (similar to LH's A340-600 row 25A/C/H/K)

Full power outlets (110v/220v) at every eco seat.

The meal offerings' looks and aromas were every bit as good as LH's aluminum-foil wrapped 'delicacies'. (We instead took our own salads and turkey wraps, so I didn't get to actually try their food.)

There's nothing free on board, not even water. But at a savings of over 1000 Euros one-way, this SEN can either buy on-board or fill my own 1.5 liter bottle or take along some from the gift shop.

Loaner iPads available for $25 rent if desired.

Landed at FRA and parked at an actual gate with a jetway! None of the LH nonsense of remote stand parking and then a standing bus ride of what seems like an hour to get to the terminal building.

The only perceived negative was the short stopover at Reykjavik (I'd like it to either be much longer!).

Sorry, Lufthansa. WOW Air really did 'wow' this SEN in economy for its comfort and simplicity.

Yes, LH can do IRROPS. Yes, WOW has a lack of routes. Yes, LH has lounges. But lounges, on-board service, and low economy mileage just aren't worth an extra 1000 Euros per flight. Of course, if someone's flying using someone else's money, most of those somebodies will spend 1000 Euros more on things that are really only worth, say, 150 Euros. And still end up at a remote stand after spending more.

OP: I understand your point of view!

Concerto

I'm still not convinced that the LCC model will work on long haul in the long run, but I would like to try both Norwegian and Wow Air at some point. The former, in particular, has some very interesting destinations, such as Stewart-Newburgh some way to the north of New York. But, that is another topic, another discussion. Long time since I've been in LH long haul Economy, at least 4 years. I expect it has declined a lot in quality.

Lack

Spending my own money I can't recall a TATL ticket with LH that cost me over ~700 EUR (depending on exchange rates). And those were of the upper bound of the price range, higher then typical booking classes to get upgrades or more miles.
I'd pretty pissed if I had to routinely pay 1000 EUR per direction for LH Y though.

Grog

Using lufthansa.com and tomorrow's flights as examples, the pricing is slightly higher than I experienced when I bought my WOW Air ticket. All flights tomorrow from BWI to FRA one-way cost USD 2,946.60. (~5.7 times higher than my WOW Air one-way.)

Using a roundtrip for an example (flying tomorrow, returning in 30 days), LH's roundtrip would be USD 2,869.75, compared to a WOW Air roundtrip price of USD 840, so that still means at least 3.4x more than the WOW Air (and a purposeless, non-refundable return ticket).