Sirecca

I was just ruminating about the recent takeover of Caesar's by Harrah's (and the ongoing problems I'm still having with Harrah's screwing up my Connection Card account AND my prior Total Rewards account in the process), and I can't help but feel that the "Harrahization" of Vegas is destroying the Vegas experience of old.

I have been going to Vegas on a regular basis for about 25 years now, so maybe I'm just resistant to change. But:

- The customer base. On my most recent visit, I had my feet run over in the Aladdin by a harried Mom pushing a stroller. The ratio of babies/kids to gamblers seems to continue to grow, despite the supposed trend back toward adults. A walk down the center strip was wall-to-wall kids.

- The gambling. Harrah's seems intent on destroying the gambling experience by packing their casinos with slots, gimmicky games, and other low-payoff propositions (like 6/5 blackjack -- did they invent this abomination?) It seems inevitable that Harrah's will accelerate this trend at their new Caesar's properties.

- The service. Harrah's is big on "standardization" and "automation". What this really means is IT systems that don't work, everything done on a shoestring, a woeful lack of humans to fix things, and little to no flexibility in dealing with customers on a personal level. I can't even begin to describe the hurdles they thrown at me to fix their conversion screw-ups. And their attitude -- including at the "new & improved" Total Rewards desk inside Paris on my recent visit -- seems to be "We're Harrah's and we don't care."

I guess it's time for something new, but I think "the Harrah's way" is like a virus that can't be stopped.

I say, bring back the Mob.

mbstone

I haven't been back to Caesars recently. Do you have to hunt for a 3/2 BJ table? Have they changed the craps odds?

SAT Lawyer

I agree with you, Sirecca.

Las Vegas seems to be turning into Disneyworld in the Desert.

And 6 to 5 blackjack is an abomination. Fortunately there's a fairly easy solution to that problem: bypass those tables for the 3 to 2 games.

dankyone

I stayed at Caesars last month and I concur. NOBODY at the hotel seems to be able to give a clear explanation about how the Harrahs total rewards program works for table players..."Just go ahead and play and you will earn points, credits, etc and we'll look at it later" seems to be the answer.

Yes, they also screwed up my conversion (I didn' t have a Harrahs acct prior to this but I wound up with two different ones.) I am also almost sure that I somehow lost banked comp credits in the process.

On the plus side, the higher limit tables at CP are not crowded and are 3/2. The new rooms at the Augustus tower are very large, more like junior suites.

I have been getting mail offers from them practically every day, but I doubt I will play there again until someone can give me a straight answer about the comp criteria as it relates to the new system.

GDIW

Years ago the RIO was a fantastic property. Friendly dealers, nice atmosphere, great restaurants. Then it was Harrahtized. As this was the first casualty of Harrahs it took a while to destroy the place. Slowly changes were made that made us wonder why we kept going back there. The table games in the Masquerade area were removed, more slots with poor odds were added. Then the other table area was shrunk.

Then about three years ago they replaced all of the friendly efficient and beautiful cocktail waitresses with bevertainers. Every 15 minutes or so the music would blare and some poor girl would stand on a pedestal to dance and sing. Really ruined the casino atmosphere. We have not been back since.

I am sure that Harrah's has learned how to expedite this demize of their newly obtained properties. Expect the decline in service to continue.

In comparison, the mob did a fantastic job of running Las Vegas. Hasn't been the same since they moved to the background.

bltserv

I really agree with this post. Rio was one of the best in Vegas before
Harrah-tization.
The bean counters have squeezed everything out that was better quality.
One of my favorite places at Rio was the Wine Cellar. Down below in
the Masquerade area. This used to be a great place to wine taste.
Nice wine selection. Friendly people. And some good deals.
Well it totally sucks now. Its sad to see the girls that have worked there for years say the same thing. What happened to Rio, will and is happening to Paris and anything else they touch. Thats why the Mob ownership worked.
The beancounters were not in charge. Thats why places like Wynn
will do well.

QuietLion

You earn rewards credits equal to 10% of your theoretical loss. If you know what that means, you know just about everything there is to know about rewards credits. If you don't, it will require a college-level class to explain it all.

QL

GDIW

I loved the wine cellar as well. Fabulous collection with barrels full of low priced wines. Perfect to grab one and take it back to the room! They also did Scotch tastings and had a good sized selection of single malts. Removing the scotch was one of the first casualties of Harrahs ownership.

QL -

The reward system that Harrahs uses is great for low end gamblers. They do offer lots of room deals and free shows in addition to the comps. The atmosphere of the places though is so much less personal that I don't enjoy it. I also gamble so infrequently and for so few minutes that it is not enough to bother with the reward card.

bumpme

It's a classic case of a profit squeeze by the corporations that run these joints. Decrease the payout to 6/5 and increase the deck size from 6 to 8.

baccarat_king

To sum it up the Harrahs philosophy :
Slot Player = good
table Player = bad
Everything now is based on the total rewards system... and the rewards are hardly rewarding for the Table Player..

Nobody at Harrahs will ever give you a real answer about rating of table players, BUT this is what I was able to piece together, based on my play and credits (an example from last year, the last time I played tables at a Harrahs property, and only because I was at Harrahs for a 50K baccarat tourney)

"Was at Harrahs for 3 days this past weekend [May 2005]. Played table games for approx. 11 hours; around 6-7 hours of craps, average bet was $100. Played midi and mini-baccarat average bet was $75. They said my overall average bet in the 11 hours of play was $89.
For this, I received 937 tier credits over the 3 days [with a little bit of video poker play].

So, in conclusion, my 11 hours of table play, that was above a $75 average bet got me $35 in comps.

BUT, you will get many many room offers from marketing. These are often more valuable than the comps through the total reward system; since a 3 day stay at Caesars in Augustus Tower is a very nice comp.

If others have any other experiences with the relationship of table play to total rewards points and comps, it would be very interesting to compare.

Would be very interested in seeing how your play relates to credits (and offers) if you are a solid $200 better at Harrahs..... but, I would personally NOT be playing at that level at any Harrahs property.

baccarat_king

yes, but 6/5 is usually single deck; which is what confuses people.

6/5 single deck is much worse than 3/2 6 deck.

bumpme

I don't think 6/5 is only single deck exclusively.

baccarat_king

no, it absolutely isn't...

But, many casinos use it as a ploy to to get folks to play their single deck games. (i.e. the large signs to announce single deck blackjack... but, don't mention they are single deck 6/5)

off topic, but some gaming commissions, such as Indiana, will NOT allow 6/5 games.... yet....

NWsilverflyer

I was at Flamingo last month and played for about 5 hours, combining video poker and $25/hand blackjack. I managed to rack up just over 1,000 points which gave "platinum in a day status." All of a sudden, I'm eligble for all of these comp nights when I search reservations on harrahs.com. Just out of curiosity, how does Total Rewards compare to the card that MGM Mirage offers? Is it harder to get comps/cash back through MGM Mirage because they, arguably, cater to a 'different crowd'?

mbstone

MGM Mirage, and every other casino except Harrah's/Rio/Caesars/etc., will tell you up front (how many hours of play) * (how much average bet) = what comps. Harrah's will invariably duck the question, merely saying, "It's based on your play." Harrah's views table games as a necessary evil and caters primarily to slot players. And while I have experienced good comps at some Harrah's properties on some occasions (mainly when dealing with hosts), on the average their table game comps aren't competitive.