The KLM erosion thread
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home for the terminally bewildered.
Posts: 1,621
Are all your views based on KLM press releases?
This is where you are wrong, again.
A few years ago KLM would give you a free ticket. They would even cover the cost of the airport taxes.
Changing the policy on airport taxes is disappointing, but understandable. However, KLM also charge you the extortionate fuel surcharges which are NOT a tax. A tax is something which is collected on behalf of another party, such as airport passenger duty, or government taxes.
U.S. airlines for example are not allowed to class fuel surcharges as a tax, and they have to be part of the airfare.
Often a "free" ticket on KLM is more expensive than a revenue ticket on other airlines.
A few years ago KLM would give you a free ticket. They would even cover the cost of the airport taxes.
Changing the policy on airport taxes is disappointing, but understandable. However, KLM also charge you the extortionate fuel surcharges which are NOT a tax. A tax is something which is collected on behalf of another party, such as airport passenger duty, or government taxes.
U.S. airlines for example are not allowed to class fuel surcharges as a tax, and they have to be part of the airfare.
Often a "free" ticket on KLM is more expensive than a revenue ticket on other airlines.
#32




Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS Titanium, Marriott Titanium, ICH Diamond, HH Gold
Posts: 4,823
However, KLM also charge you the extortionate fuel surcharges which are NOT a tax. A tax is something which is collected on behalf of another party, such as airport passenger duty, or government taxes.
U.S. airlines for example are not allowed to class fuel surcharges as a tax, and they have to be part of the airfare.
U.S. airlines for example are not allowed to class fuel surcharges as a tax, and they have to be part of the airfare.
Still, it is an erosion as such, compared to either the completely free award tickets (think I had one of those, which defines my age just a bit more...) or to just charging the airport and government taxes & fees.
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home for the terminally bewildered.
Posts: 1,621
I believe U.S. carriers for one do not charge fuel surcharges on redemption tickets. Would like someone to confirm this however.
Last edited by Mofomat; Nov 6, 2007 at 4:31 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Johan
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
I am still with you and continue to upgrade this list.
We seem to have bumped into 1 or 2 issues where KLM seems to part us of money without any logic, product or extra service behind it. I have marked them with an (!)
If somehow it can be proved they are not true, please let it it know ASAP, because I think these issues weigh even heavier than the ongoing erosion issues.
We seem to have bumped into 1 or 2 issues where KLM seems to part us of money without any logic, product or extra service behind it. I have marked them with an (!)
If somehow it can be proved they are not true, please let it it know ASAP, because I think these issues weigh even heavier than the ongoing erosion issues.
#36
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ PPS, LH SEN, Amex something, nothing everywhere else
Posts: 994
I only have experience with AA, but they do not make you pay the fuel surcharge on redemption tickets. As an example, a ticket in J FRA-ORD on AA costs $60 in taxes. Not exactly free, but at least they only charge the taxes that they need to pay to others. The KLM fuel surcharge goes directly into KLM's pocket and is entirely under KLM's control.
#37
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ PPS, LH SEN, Amex something, nothing everywhere else
Posts: 994
I generally agree that food and drinks have improved at the lounge, but they're not exactly of outstanding quality. Besides, the chocomel never returned. I still miss the old individually packed bars of Gouda cheese, and I haven't seen popcorn in the lounge in a while either. Perhaps it's one of those rotating time-of-the-day snacks though.
I especially miss the old RoyalWing lounge in the D pier, which was ideal for the London flights. Nowadays of course I'm usually on VLM or BA, but still.
Priority boarding has deteriorated. Although it never did work on short haul, in the olden days they'd at least make an effort on long haul. Remeber the colored cards and the lights? They still make the announcement that they'll start boarding with business class, but not even a token effort is made to enforce it.
I especially miss the old RoyalWing lounge in the D pier, which was ideal for the London flights. Nowadays of course I'm usually on VLM or BA, but still.
Priority boarding has deteriorated. Although it never did work on short haul, in the olden days they'd at least make an effort on long haul. Remeber the colored cards and the lights? They still make the announcement that they'll start boarding with business class, but not even a token effort is made to enforce it.
#39




Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS Titanium, Marriott Titanium, ICH Diamond, HH Gold
Posts: 4,823
What my point was that airlines either do not have fuel surcharges (either on revenue/award tickets), or they do have them, and will charge on both revenue and award tickets.
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home for the terminally bewildered.
Posts: 1,621
Actually, I've just re-read what I put in my post, and what I meant to say was redemption tickets and not revenue tickets.
#41
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Living in Mainland Europe, you will reach BA silver with one TATL trip in J + one relatively cheap return in J to London. This gives you most of the benefits of ST+ with significantly less travel. Indeed, I have trouble thinking of a program that is "easier" to reach elite status on. That being said, as you mentioned, you will get no status if you fly BA solely in Y, but many at the BA board swear by premium economy, which will also get you status pretty quickly - just over 2 TATL trips.
#42
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)


Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,840
What about that it takes 6 weeks to get the refund of your taxes when cancelling your award ticket?
That I also find a rip off, as it should be refunded just as quick as taking the money from you!
Gajan
That I also find a rip off, as it should be refunded just as quick as taking the money from you!
Gajan
#43
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Improvements:
+ Much improved selection of pristine French language newspapers and magazines in the AMS Schiphol lounges
+ No longer advertising misleading "exclusive" prices in Dutch market after being forced to stop by the competition and fairness in advertising authorities
Erosion:
- Tremendous waste and pollution throwing away all the unread, unwanted French language periodicals in the lounges
- Much reduced selection of English and Dutch language newspapers and magazines in the lounges
- No more bottled water in the lounges
- No more champagne in the AMS lounges
- Shower capacity in AMS lounge does not match current policy nor meet related demand
-
+ Much improved selection of pristine French language newspapers and magazines in the AMS Schiphol lounges
+ No longer advertising misleading "exclusive" prices in Dutch market after being forced to stop by the competition and fairness in advertising authorities
Erosion:
- Tremendous waste and pollution throwing away all the unread, unwanted French language periodicals in the lounges
- Much reduced selection of English and Dutch language newspapers and magazines in the lounges
- No more bottled water in the lounges
- No more champagne in the AMS lounges
- Shower capacity in AMS lounge does not match current policy nor meet related demand
-
#44
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
How specifically has the breakfast improved over the years?
I remember before always being served on my North Atlantic KL Y flights:
a hot breakfast dish such as an omelette or pancakes,
unlimited bread and
hot croissants with butter and jam,
cheese and/or ham,
fresh juice,
coffee, tea,
fresh fruit or fruit salad,
yoghurt.
And beer and wine or bloody mary's if you asked for them.
--- What have they done to improve on this?
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: FB PLT again afater a decade as plebian
Posts: 22,946

