ajamieson

That's got me puzzled too. Why such a strange revamp and right after they got so many new elites ?

I had a chat with Mirabel today, because I am about to boook a longish trip around the US, and I am not sure it's gonna be with KLM and partners - I am beginning to think I should just go for the cheapest fare

Many in Canada came to this conclusion after the gutting of Aeroplan last year - the cost/benefits of FF programs don't make much sense given the cut-backs in benefits and rise in discount carriers. Fly discount and keep the savings in cash as your own FF program.

Well, I would assume that a high level of top fliers would increase KLM's value to a suitor, also remember that when they did it it seemd that half of Europe's flag carriers were going bust.

It would seem from what Chris wrote that they will "count" excess miles until the end of December. If that is confirmed, I am gonna start racking them in.

they will "count" excess miles until the end of December

My interpretation and expectation is: no more counting of status excess miles on dec-31-2003/jan-1-2004!

But automatic extension of current status holders (status with expiries in 2003) until dec-31-2003 (or probably even until end of january or february 2004).

Thanks AJAMIESON!

I do agree with you. My mileage is primarily leisure based and on this basis I have been RW for a number of years and have three in the bank, my partner has 6. I stick with KLM because of the FF benefits as they are and if they change significantly or make it more tricky for me to stay top tier, my loyalty is likely to dwindle.

Good on those comped in KLMs very generous promotion I say, however it does make customers loyal to KLM for many years, who struggle to get 200 goodwill points for a KLM mistake a little peeved by the huge handout and ongoing status!

Im confused; so if you have say 5 years of RW in excess points what happens to them??

There will be alot of very dissapointed people if they just write off those earned top tier years!

It will be very interesting to see....

If you have already 3 years Royal Wing status secured at the moment, I doubt they can cut off your status on 31/12/03.

Maybe they downgrade you to Gold?....

Probably too much logistics for KLM :-)

It does not sound logical.....

That is why it is "tempting" to rack up some "Level miles" now......

Erm... why? Why is that any different to changing any other benefit within the programme? There clearly is no contractual entitlement to years of whatever succeeds RW just because you would get enough points under the current system.

Under that logic, you would be entitled to whatever your FD points can buy now for an indefinite duration as long as you remain member of FD. Clearly, that is not the case and the terms and conditions make it plain that KL can change the programme as they see fit whenever they see fit.

Someone suggested that they might extend status for an extra year if you have a multiple of 24,000 status points already in your account but apart from that there is probably no point in "racking up" level miles. KLM is completely free to implement the new programme as they see fit and granting X years of Platinum status is not likely IMHO.

-- Dambus

But they should do it - you have already earned that under current conditions.

Otherwise this is clearly a change to the worse on that point and they promised to not do this.

Of course the CAN change it at their discretion. But they also can cancel the whole program if they want to...

[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 09-25-2002).]

Erm, Nick B, if you or they want to go down that slippery slope there are a lot of precedents. UA was brought to court and had to grandfather the old awards chart until this day. AA was brought to court and had to honor similar old awards. DL keeps "old" miles seperately from new miles, and BA allowed their pax to either stay with airmiles or move their old miles to BA miles. Therefore it is NOT farfetched at all.

There is the small matter of differences in US and Dutch law.

FD is administered according to Dutch law, and that's per the contractual agreement that you agreed to as a member.

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dog food...whoops I mean snack

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
Virtual Airline Management Group

*a QF here and an IB there, here a AA, there a BA, everywhere a ....?

hfly:
On the contractual point, I doubt that you would fare as well under the Dutch legal system as you do under the US one, and the jurisdiction of the US courts in this situation is highly dubious, partly because of the terms of the FD programme which, if my memory serves me right, contains a clause attributing competence to Dutch courts and making Dutch law applicable to the contract. Also, the FD programme is in principle not open to US residents (you have to go with WP instead). I would have thought that US jurisdiction would be forum non conveniens.

All I was saying was that there is no more reason to assume that they cannot limit the number of years of post-RW status on the basis of status points already acquired than there is to assume that they cannot change the number of miles required for a particular award. If, as everybody seems to assume (me included), they can do the latter, then they can do the former.

I think that the question is less one of legal entitlement than one of commercial practice/customer relations. They may consider that it would alienate their most frequent flyers too much to limit the carrying forward of elite eligibility. They might decide, on the other hand, that allowing the carrying forward is too much of a disincentive to fly KL, as you have no need to maintain status and you might as well build up status on another carrier to multiply your advantages, all the more so as another one of the good perks of the FD programme is that you get access to lounges as a RW, even when you do not fly KL or partners.

By the way, is there any other carrier that allows you to carry forward status when you exceed the top elite threshold (apart from lifetime schemes, that is)?

it is not unusual 'these days' that 'folks' assume US laws/juristication/politics will/should rule the rest of the world

I am not entirely sure how the CURRENT system works. I have so far 17,650 service points in 2003. As a comped RW I agree with Rudi that that comp will most probably be extended up end 2003, and just as likely to end Feb 2004 to bring the RW plan into line with the NW and other USA schemes.

May or may not take the rest of this year's flights with KLM, as UA 1K is locked in again. That would be another 15,000-20,000 service points. Depends whether we gain anything by doing that flying. The website say the following right now:

Mr. ozstamps - You have accumulated xxx award points. Earn 16350 service points to remain on the RoyalWing level or fly 40 one-ways before 10-Aug-2003

I gather they have yet to deduct some status miles from my current 17,650 to *pay* for my RW this year? (Their system I have no real concept of - thank goodness it is changing!) So forgetting the incoming new system for a monent, in a "normal" year how many Service Points more would I need to accrue to get a full year/s rollover in the "bank"?




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