The new AF-KL loyalty program
Mar 15, 2005 | 3:12 am
#16
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cheltenham
Programs: Mucci, KLM Plat for Life , BA now muddy grey, HH Silver, (Other half Diamond), IHG Gold
Posts: 2,690
The first post mirrors exactly what I have been told.
In addition I have also been told that there will be two types of award:
1. Current limited availability awards which will be available across Sky Team.
2. Non limited awards : Like CO; If there is a seat you can have it but at twice the Miles price.
In addition I have also been told that there will be two types of award:
1. Current limited availability awards which will be available across Sky Team.
2. Non limited awards : Like CO; If there is a seat you can have it but at twice the Miles price.
Mar 15, 2005 | 3:30 am
#17
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,512
Originally Posted by simonsmith
The first post mirrors exactly what I have been told.
In addition I have also been told that there will be two types of award:
1. Current limited availability awards which will be available across Sky Team.
2. Non limited awards : Like CO; If there is a seat you can have it but at twice the Miles price.
In addition I have also been told that there will be two types of award:
1. Current limited availability awards which will be available across Sky Team.
2. Non limited awards : Like CO; If there is a seat you can have it but at twice the Miles price.
Mar 15, 2005 | 6:15 am
#18
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by tricopulos
Illuminating call with the FD helpdesk:
1) starting date new program: 1st June
2) elite bonusses: Silver:50%, Gold: 75%, Platinum: 100%
^ ^ ^
1) starting date new program: 1st June
2) elite bonusses: Silver:50%, Gold: 75%, Platinum: 100%
^ ^ ^
Thus many AF Rouge will be split between Gold and Platinum. Isn't it like changing the rules after the game is over?
Mar 15, 2005 | 6:47 am
#19
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In a plane over Europe; I mean in the back of a plane over Europe !!!
Programs: HHonors, Scandic, Priority Club, Marriott, AF/KL FB, BAEC, AB TB, LH M&M
Posts: 860
Originally Posted by NickB
I don't think it is an error. These are in fact the current thresholds for F+ Bleu/Rouge (25K and 40K), so, in effect, what they are doing (from an F+ perspective) is adding a new level at 70K.
Wondering whether the CoS bonus will still be 100% for C, though (and what would be the CoS bonus for First)
Wondering whether the CoS bonus will still be 100% for C, though (and what would be the CoS bonus for First)
I checked and i saw
Requis pour accs__Frquence Plus Bleu__Frquence Plus Rouge
Miles qualifiants____25000_____________40000
Vols qualifiants_____ou 15_____________ou 30
It seems I need only 30 legs with AF for their top elite level but 40 for KLM Gold one. I think up to know the final requirements for elite qualification are for sure not so clear, logic and, I hope, not even so final...
Mar 15, 2005 | 7:08 am
#20
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LHR
Programs: UA P, BA S, A3 *G, IHG Plat, Marriott Lt P, Hilton Gld, etc.
Posts: 1,080
very interesting read... what reamin to be seen is:
1) will they offer a merge option to people who have F+ AND FD accounts.
2) what level will correspond to Skyteam Elite Plus level (presume they will still be glod elite, but not sure as they lower requirements.. for comparizon: Delta Gold Medallion (with 50k MQM requirement) is only SkyTeam Elite (no lounge access)
3) will they make their redemption tables uniform... item N8 suggests that possibly, but we'll see.
1) will they offer a merge option to people who have F+ AND FD accounts.
2) what level will correspond to Skyteam Elite Plus level (presume they will still be glod elite, but not sure as they lower requirements.. for comparizon: Delta Gold Medallion (with 50k MQM requirement) is only SkyTeam Elite (no lounge access)
3) will they make their redemption tables uniform... item N8 suggests that possibly, but we'll see.
Mar 15, 2005 | 11:50 am
#22
Suspended
Join Date: May 2001
Location: DUS
Posts: 4,004
Originally Posted by tricopulos
Illuminating call with the FD helpdesk:
1) starting date new program: 1st June
2) elite bonusses: Silver:50%, Gold: 75%, Platinum: 100%
3) if member flies on Kenya or SkyTeam carriers nothing changes (award and level miles are earned); on other partner airlines (e.g. Malaysia, Malev, China Southern) ONLY award miles
4) minimum mileage for short flights: 750 miles ^
5) award miles expire after 36 months
6) miles needed for yearly level renewal: 25/40/70, but 30/60/90 if member resides in France
7) awards can be booked only on SkyTeam carriers, not on partner airlines
8) new world zones (Central America will require more miles than Northern America, Asia will be divided into two zones, introduction of two Pacific Ocean zones, etc)
9) some partners (which ones?) will leave the program
On the poz side: possibility to hold a new booking for 4 days before confirming. ^ ^ ^
1) starting date new program: 1st June
2) elite bonusses: Silver:50%, Gold: 75%, Platinum: 100%
3) if member flies on Kenya or SkyTeam carriers nothing changes (award and level miles are earned); on other partner airlines (e.g. Malaysia, Malev, China Southern) ONLY award miles
4) minimum mileage for short flights: 750 miles ^
5) award miles expire after 36 months
6) miles needed for yearly level renewal: 25/40/70, but 30/60/90 if member resides in France
7) awards can be booked only on SkyTeam carriers, not on partner airlines
8) new world zones (Central America will require more miles than Northern America, Asia will be divided into two zones, introduction of two Pacific Ocean zones, etc)
9) some partners (which ones?) will leave the program
On the poz side: possibility to hold a new booking for 4 days before confirming. ^ ^ ^
Mar 15, 2005 | 2:49 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Cleveland
Programs: AF/KLM Plat For Life/UA Million Miler-PremEx For Life/SPG Gold
Posts: 5,056
I believe that patience is in order as well.
I'm sure we can all sit tight until FD/F+ decides to make their 'official' announcement.
Shouldn't be more than a month and change until the speculation turns into fact!
I'm sure we can all sit tight until FD/F+ decides to make their 'official' announcement.
Shouldn't be more than a month and change until the speculation turns into fact!
Mar 16, 2005 | 12:39 am
#24
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Da Nang, Vietnam
Programs: Vietnam Airlines Lotusmiles Platinum
Posts: 2,426
One more month
Originally Posted by beaubo
I believe that patience is in order as well.
I'm sure we can all sit tight until FD/F+ decides to make their 'official' announcement.
Shouldn't be more than a month and change until the speculation turns into fact!
I'm sure we can all sit tight until FD/F+ decides to make their 'official' announcement.
Shouldn't be more than a month and change until the speculation turns into fact!
Mar 16, 2005 | 2:10 am
#26
Join Date: Nov 2001
Programs: LH SEN, FB Plat, Hyatt Dia, HHonors Dia, PC Plat
Posts: 782
Has somebody already some insight on the following topics:
- Will one-way awards still be possible at half price?
- Will eticketing be possible?
- Do award levels (eu-us, within eu) stay the same?
Thanks.
- Will one-way awards still be possible at half price?
- Will eticketing be possible?
- Do award levels (eu-us, within eu) stay the same?
Thanks.
Mar 16, 2005 | 12:08 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by alanw
Everyone please keep in mind that this is information passed on by the hinderdesk.
Have they ever been remotely right about anything they've ever said?
Have they ever been remotely right about anything they've ever said?
at the helpdesk and information from both guys match.I had to call the helpdesk again because of a problematic award and i took the opportunity to dig further. I can give some more info and I've been promised for more on Saturday.
BSL: partners leaving the program: air exel, avianca, sam.
New partners joining: twin jet, airlinair, air calin, japan airlines, air india, indian airlines, bangkok airways, taag, middle east, airlinair, taag (hope all names are correct)
connex2me: yes, one way awards will be possible; eticketing not (yet) foreseen for FB/KL.
Miles accrual on E/N class tickets will be possible, but credited only 25% (miserable but better than nothing). The problem is that also V class intercontinental tickets will only give 25% of the regular miles!
And listen to this: the business class bonus will cease to be 100% and become 50% as now with Frquence Plus. Are they insane at AF-KL?
Mar 16, 2005 | 12:15 pm
#28
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Programs: LH FTL, KL Platinum, AB Gold, BA Silver, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt GP Diamond
Posts: 167
extended level
Anyone heard if the extended KLM PE level based on remaining years of RW will be honoured. If so I wil remain PE until 2008
Mar 16, 2005 | 1:42 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: South Coast, UK
Programs: Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 2,069
Originally Posted by tricopulos
It depends who you ask. I have two (secret) agents at the helpdesk and information from both guys match.
I had to call the helpdesk again because of a problematic award and i took the opportunity to dig further. I can give some more info and I've been promised for more on Saturday.
BSL: partners leaving the program: air exel, avianca, sam.
New partners joining: twin jet, airlinair, air calin, japan airlines, air india, indian airlines, bangkok airways, taag, middle east, airlinair, taag (hope all names are correct)
connex2me: yes, one way awards will be possible; eticketing not (yet) foreseen for FB/KL.
Miles accrual on E/N class tickets will be possible, but credited only 25% (miserable but better than nothing). The problem is that also V class intercontinental tickets will only give 25% of the regular miles!
And listen to this: the business class bonus will cease to be 100% and become 50% as now with Frquence Plus. Are they insane at AF-KL?
at the helpdesk and information from both guys match.I had to call the helpdesk again because of a problematic award and i took the opportunity to dig further. I can give some more info and I've been promised for more on Saturday.
BSL: partners leaving the program: air exel, avianca, sam.
New partners joining: twin jet, airlinair, air calin, japan airlines, air india, indian airlines, bangkok airways, taag, middle east, airlinair, taag (hope all names are correct)
connex2me: yes, one way awards will be possible; eticketing not (yet) foreseen for FB/KL.
Miles accrual on E/N class tickets will be possible, but credited only 25% (miserable but better than nothing). The problem is that also V class intercontinental tickets will only give 25% of the regular miles!
And listen to this: the business class bonus will cease to be 100% and become 50% as now with Frquence Plus. Are they insane at AF-KL?
Will any of the 'new' partners get me to Australia or New Zealand ?
Mar 16, 2005 | 3:09 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,881
Originally Posted by tricopulos
BSL: partners leaving the program: air exel, avianca, sam.
New partners joining: twin jet, airlinair, air calin, japan airlines, air india, indian airlines, bangkok airways, taag, middle east, airlinair, taag (hope all names are correct)
New partners joining: twin jet, airlinair, air calin, japan airlines, air india, indian airlines, bangkok airways, taag, middle east, airlinair, taag (hope all names are correct)
Avianca and Sam have already left Globalpass back in January and therefore de facto stopped to be FD partners. As far as Air Exel is concerned, haven't they stopped flying?
The new partners are in fact F+ partners, so nothing new really. Just the consequences of the merger.
CoS bonus: yes, this is exactly what I feared.
Looks to me like the new programme is basically the F+ programme with the KL partners added and presumably a few additional perks for F+ members who do more than 70K a year.
If, as I fear, upgrades from any fare are also going, then the FD programme will have no attractive feature. As KL is not in itself an especially attractive airline, it looks to me like KL will be dying of a slow death over the next few years.
If only they understood at AF that KL cannot be AF and the NL are NOT France... F+ might work for AF but it is unlikely to work for KL.
