When the search function is up and running again, educate yourself by doing a search for 'lounge dragons'. You will find that term is used on numerous airline boards on FT, and not just by us KLM hating arrogant Englishmen

Yes, they have. Substantially. As I wrote before, 5 years ago KL was often twice as expensive ex-AMS compared to cheapest carrier to Asia, parts of North America and Africa, these days they are often only 10 to 30% more expensive than cheapest alternative.

Well, apart from the odd Click & Go, I certainly haven't noticed any decrease in the lowest fares to NBO and JNB over the last five years. On the contrary, they have increased slightly, not to mention the increase in all sorts of so-called charges and taxes. KL's lowest JNB fares were and still are some �50 higher than SA/LH, their main competitors on the route.

I'll readily confess that I do not have a comprehensive knowledge of all fares ex-AMS, so I shall ask a fares expert of my aquaintance, who has been dealing with KL for many years. Shall post any answer I get here.

Johan

Just because AF is the dominant party of the new program doesn't mean that every FD policy will necessarily be scrapped.

The F+ people presumably can analyze the pros and cons of FD and F+ and attempt to incorporate the best of both programs, where such policies are financially viable and sustainable.

Remember, FD has a strong track record with the structure of their program (though not necessarily the execution of it!!). I think FD can make a strong case for retaining policies like

Webawards
benefit to airline; fill seats during offpeak periods; reduce mileage liability by allowing more award reemption opportunities
benefit to members: discounted award travel

One Way awards
benefit to airline: reduce mileage liability by allowing more award redemption opportunities
benefit to members: terrific flexibility of award usage

100% COS bonuses
benefit to airline: COMPELLING incentive to fly paid Business Class, whereas 25-50% COS bonus is not enough incentive; better ties mileage earning to money spent
benefit to member: ability to earn top-tier status more quickly, efficiently


I think FD has far less leverage in defending upgrades on ANY fare pr mileage earning on ANY fare.

Has anyone else heard (or can confirm) the April 6 date mentioned earlier as "official" launch date for this new deal?

Glen

And will the new mechanism cope with those of us foolish enough to take part in the "status challenge" offer, which runs until the end of June?

Surely you know the answer to that...

"It is not possible...."

"We don't have any record of such a promotion."

It may or may not do but, in any event, what you gain with the status challenge is not your old status back but the corresponding level in the new programme. IMO, this has a significant effect on the attractiveness of the status challenge, all the more so if the new programme does not offer a soft landing (we do not know either way yet, but it is significant that there is no soft landing under the current F+ programme).
If there is no soft landing, then all you get with the status match is 5 months of Flying Blue Plat (from FD Gold). Might be worth it if you are going to have a lot of ST flying in the second half of the year or if you are going to fly the miles needed for the challenge on ST anyway.
If not, I am not sure that the offer is that attractive.

I recently wrote and asked the following.

1. Will they still honour the extended RW years?
2. Will they honour Lifetime status at the same level?
3. Are they going to reduce C class earnings to x1.5, ( If so I will cancel several flights and take my business elsewhere).

I got a very simple reply;

"You will have to be patient and wait until the end of April to find out."

I dont feel greatly reassured!

So true !

But my favourite line was from an agent who downright told me that there has never been such a promotion...

I told him to have the KLM Newsletter right in front of me and that I can fax it right over to him...

He told me ( I am not kidding ) that he has no fax !! ( he later explained that he had no fax at his desk, only a general one for all agents and that it would not be guaranteed that it would be processe from the same department... )

However that said a lot...

But as pointed out by beaubo earlier in this thread, the training of KLM lacks big time, so one should blame KLM for poor training, not the agents who are left alone with inefficient systems, however they should realise that as well and seek some more upgrades and training

I suspect you are right (which is why I was curious in the first place) and I fear the worst. They might be more responsive to a status match if promoting a new program, but again a status match in June isn't much help

AJ, I think if you are so desperate for Chocolate Dutchman status you need to get your butt on some KL planes and fly the miles like the rest of us and quit whining about freebie promotions! And answer my PMs while you're at it!

-alan
LH Sen

Actually I did get my butt on a KL plane the other day. And a CO, and a DL. And even a NW DC-10 out of MEM, for which I should be given some sort of a bravery medal never mind a gold card.

I'll have my people check my PMs and get back to you

As a gold should I jump ship now to nwa or wait till july or august when I will get status till 2007 with the switch address. Any thoughts, opinions or suggestions would be helpful.
thanks