KLM wants fully flat beds in business
Feb 15, 2011, 1:41 pm
#16
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Seems that after many years of product erosion some things are actually being improved.
Not only the wines will be better than on AF, but the way things look for the future also the seats will be better 
Last edited by Zembla; Feb 15, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Feb 15, 2011, 11:43 pm
#17
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Aisle access trumps lie flat
Lie (completely) flat seat are great, as well as old news now on the leading airlines. But even more important to me is easy access to the aisle - it seems ridiculous in business class to have to squeeze out/over people when the seats are in the reclined position. The various NEV seats are terrible for this. At least the Swiss, Delta and even herringbone layouts are great for easy aisle access. The BA Club World seats can still be a bit of pain if you have a window seat and are trying to step over the footstool end to get out... So I hope KLM just copies something like the Delta seat in the 767-400.
Feb 16, 2011, 4:01 am
#18
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I hope KLM goes the Swiss route. Seems the best of all worlds, avoiding the problems of aisle access inherent to the BA layout, while still allowing some kind of density (albeit less than now). I hope they don't do what Singapore did... simply having a wide seat means nothing (unless your BMI is above 35). KLM could also score some points with good technology, such as being able to plug in an iPod to watch one's own movies etc.
Wouldn't AF exercising a veto over this plan by KLM by like shooting themselves in the foot? While the arguments that KLM may end up cannibalizing the AF market, does it really matter? The money ends up in the same holding company in the end anyway. Better to be cannibalized by one's own, than by the true competition. Right?
Wouldn't AF exercising a veto over this plan by KLM by like shooting themselves in the foot? While the arguments that KLM may end up cannibalizing the AF market, does it really matter? The money ends up in the same holding company in the end anyway. Better to be cannibalized by one's own, than by the true competition. Right?
Feb 16, 2011, 5:58 am
#20
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Lie (completely) flat seat are great, as well as old news now on the leading airlines. But even more important to me is easy access to the aisle - it seems ridiculous in business class to have to squeeze out/over people when the seats are in the reclined position. The various NEV seats are terrible for this.
Personally I don't care. Flat is flat and I will give KL a big hug and kiss if they can give us 180 degree flat seats that we can sleep in.
Jun 6, 2011, 8:38 am
#24
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Jun 7, 2011, 3:42 am
#26
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You really have to hope that there is no interference from on high on this one, but i cannot see the AF chiefs being too happy that their apparently inferior brother is providing a superior product. The fact that KLM has always had the edge (IMHO) will be lost on them and the positive approach of 'we are crap, therefore they have to be at least as bad' will no doubt prevail.
Jun 7, 2011, 4:34 am
#27
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You really have to hope that there is no interference from on high on this one, but i cannot see the AF chiefs being too happy that their apparently inferior brother is providing a superior product. The fact that KLM has always had the edge (IMHO) will be lost on them and the positive approach of 'we are crap, therefore they have to be at least as bad' will no doubt prevail.
Jun 7, 2011, 4:44 am
#28
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First of all, AF senior management only cares about money. So no worries about interference as long as the KL business unit is reasonably profitable. Secondly, while AF was the better airline, KL has recently passed AF in business class food and service. There was no interference there so I don't expect there to be any interference with seats. And as money rules, and KL has likely already invested and committed a lot of money to the new seats, I really doubt AF would stop it. Third, KL doesn't have a First class so AF can always be superior in that respect.
Last edited by orbitmic; Jun 7, 2011 at 5:38 am
Jun 7, 2011, 7:05 am
#29
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First of all, AF senior management only cares about money. So no worries about interference as long as the KL business unit is reasonably profitable. Secondly, while AF was the better airline, KL has recently passed AF in business class food and service. There was no interference there so I don't expect there to be any interference with seats. And as money rules, and KL has likely already invested and committed a lot of money to the new seats, I really doubt AF would stop it. Third, KL doesn't have a First class so AF can always be superior in that respect.
Anyone know why its in the 77W whilst they have resisted on the 772?
Jun 7, 2011, 7:14 am
#30
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Hah, fair enough. Would be nice if KL unilaterally also removed the 10 abreast from the 77W's in Economy as well but I guess that is asking too much! Would mean they have a better Economy product across the board as well.
Anyone know why its in the 77W whilst they have resisted on the 772?
Anyone know why its in the 77W whilst they have resisted on the 772?
Gajan