KLM wants fully flat beds in business
 

i'm sorry if someone already posted this but i saw it this morning

source: 10 feb2011
http://www.zakenreis.nl/message.php?msgid=4346

dutch:
Om haar business class-product op de lange afstanden concurrerend te houden, gaat KLM volledig lie-flat bedden installeren. Dit heeft Erik Varwijk, executive vice president KLM commerical, bevestigd tegenover Zakenreis. In maart/april 2011 wordt een keuze gemaakt van het type stoel/bed, maar het zal waarschijnlijk tot eind 2012 duren voordat de stoel alle veiligheidscertificaten heeft en is geïnstalleerd op de KLM-vloot. In tegenstelling tot de zogeheten huidige lie-flat stoelen, die slechts gedeeltelijk achterover kunnen leunen, kunnen de nieuwe stoelen geheel horizontaal worden versteld, waarmee het comfort van een echt bed wordt benaderd. Hinderlijke 'glijpartijen' behoren met een volledig lie-flat stoel tot het verleden.
english:
to keep longhaul business class competitive, klm will instal fully flat beds says Erik Varwijk executive vice president klm commercial.

march/april 2011 a choice will be made of the seat/bed type
but it is expected it will take till end 2012 before the choice is safetycertified and will be installed

at present the lie flat seats are not able to recline fully, the new seats will be able to recline fully horizontal to mirror the comfort of a real bed. troublesome slippery slopes will become a thing of the past

My opinion:
Seeing is believing but fortunately the klm bobo's finally recognized that without a first class, their business class should have an edge to compete with the rest of airliners. Recliners on the 747 are so last millenium:td:, fully horizontal flat is the future. :-:

Now let's wait and see if AF will agree and support KL or obstruct them. (AF could be afraid that the KL new business seat would take away their own customers that prefer fully flat beds)

That is interesting.
So I am guessing that it will also not be the current product that is installed in the B77W. I wonder which way they will go (herringbone or a la Swiss) and if they will also increase the WBC cabin on certain aircrafts (Boeing 777 series come to mind).

Gajan

it is interesting that KL now look like they are going down the fully flat route, where as AF have committed themselves to the angled flat ... I wonder if AF will re-consider their choice?

Hopefully no herringbone seating

I really don't care as long as they are full lie-flats. Of course, it would be great if they would copy the SQ A380 seats :).

As that's, however, very unlikely, whether they adopt the BA forward/backward, the LX staggered or the CX herringbone doesn't really matter to me, they are all so much better than the current slippery slopes.

Whether they will try and maintain the number of seats is an interesting question, they are bound to loose some seats and this new seat would actually increase demand if they keep their competitive prices via AMS, especially in combination with the new Europe Business.. Of course they'd have to solve the f&f problem before the new seats arrive.

F & F problem?

I guess the OP means the good old "Friends & Family"?

Indeed.

Wow, that is actually great news!

When are the unions going to complain....? They will need an extra purser because the lie flats will mean people will actually sleep at over night flights and that will mean more work picking up all the pillows falling on the ground!

:D:D

Interesting. I wonder if the AF-KL holding will give the go-ahead for that? After all it would make them compete with AF who is rolling out the seemingly underwhelming NEV4 over the coming years.

I was also thinking the same way. AF's NEV4 will have years of life in it so I cannot see AF being happy if KL were to introduce a superior J class seat so soon. But the fact is that the market now demands a fully lie-flat seat and you may have read the news that LH will be installing fully flat J class seats in the fleet of B747-800s it has on order.
According to reports, LH will install 80 seats in business class and these will occupy the entire upper deck on the new B747 variant plus there will be a few J class seats downstairs. Should be a great product on a great plane !

I was under the impression that KL and AF are supposed to develop their inflight experience themselves, just like the food offerings are different between the two as well. So I doubt (hope) AF will not be involved in this. :p

I've never tried a herringbone layout but I have to say I do like either the staggered rear, forward facing layout on BA or the alternating layout on UA in their C classes. Without a F-class I don't see how any of these layouts will work in the nose of the 747 though.