Lots of Changes (165 seats per Airbus, and more)
Nov 20, 2014, 6:34 pm
#61
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And what do you get for that change? Assuming you're still flying in Y I'd take 32.5" in a B/E Aerospace seat on B6 over the AA Recaro seats.
I certainly understand the cathartic feeling of saying "screw you" to a company, but the changes are still 18 months out and in the interim you're giving yourself a worse experience on board.
I certainly understand the cathartic feeling of saying "screw you" to a company, but the changes are still 18 months out and in the interim you're giving yourself a worse experience on board.
I'm honestly curious as to if this will actually work or if the backlash will be so severe that this will send them down the drain.
Nov 20, 2014, 6:55 pm
#62
Join Date: May 2008
Location: new york
Programs: trueblue ,mileageplus skymiles, hilton honors silver
Posts: 965
B6 A320 change
Full disclosure: I am a JetBlue pilot, and not thrilled about these changes.
Having said that, I'm just going to respond to a couple points you've made, and hope some of the others posters on the thread might take note.
If you are elite on AA, great, you have some upgrade options and admittedly TB and Mosaic are quite weak when compared to AAdvantage. If not, well, you've relegated yourself to a transcon on either a 737 or 757 with likely no AVOD/individual monitors, no free WIFI, and 31-inch pitch.
The changes to the A320 fleet will not start until 3Q 2016, which means if you were flying anytime next year (presumably, as AA only books one year forward) you've cost yourself 3 inches of pitch. Even after the changes, the pitch on the A320 fleet will be 32.6 inches, still greater than most (if not all) of the legacies.
In internal communications the company has indicated EMS seat pitch will remain at 38 inches.
The pitch is not changing on the E190.
The A321 product, which our customers seem to really like, was rolled out with 33 inches of pitch in basic coach. Nobody grabbed the pitchforks for that one.
The company did a very poor job of rolling out this issue to our customers, which is disappointing. The communication indeed had a tone of "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you".
I wish it hadn't happened, and with reconfigurations not scheduled to begin for 17 months it may still not. However, the writing has seemingly been on the wall for the last few quarterly calls... At a minimum I'd like to see Mosaic members receive the EMS product for free to increase the value proposition, but that's not my side of the company.
Having said that, I'm just going to respond to a couple points you've made, and hope some of the others posters on the thread might take note.
If you are elite on AA, great, you have some upgrade options and admittedly TB and Mosaic are quite weak when compared to AAdvantage. If not, well, you've relegated yourself to a transcon on either a 737 or 757 with likely no AVOD/individual monitors, no free WIFI, and 31-inch pitch.
The changes to the A320 fleet will not start until 3Q 2016, which means if you were flying anytime next year (presumably, as AA only books one year forward) you've cost yourself 3 inches of pitch. Even after the changes, the pitch on the A320 fleet will be 32.6 inches, still greater than most (if not all) of the legacies.
In internal communications the company has indicated EMS seat pitch will remain at 38 inches.
The pitch is not changing on the E190.
The A321 product, which our customers seem to really like, was rolled out with 33 inches of pitch in basic coach. Nobody grabbed the pitchforks for that one.
The company did a very poor job of rolling out this issue to our customers, which is disappointing. The communication indeed had a tone of "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you".
I wish it hadn't happened, and with reconfigurations not scheduled to begin for 17 months it may still not. However, the writing has seemingly been on the wall for the last few quarterly calls... At a minimum I'd like to see Mosaic members receive the EMS product for free to increase the value proposition, but that's not my side of the company.
On the last couple of Jetblue flights I have noticed people carrying on luggage even with the free checked bags. I am more concerned with how they will handle the rush to get overhead space.
Nov 20, 2014, 7:38 pm
#63
Join Date: Jun 2012
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People like to carry on bags because they like to have their bags with them, with no chance of getting their belongings stolen or their bag lost. The last time I checked a bag EWR-BOS on an E190, my bag was one of TWO bags checked on that flight!
Nov 20, 2014, 7:56 pm
#64
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I think it's more principle for some people. JetBlue has always prided themselves on 'bringing humanity back to air travel', and yet totally shifted gears and was now trying to make Wall Street happy.
I'm honestly curious as to if this will actually work or if the backlash will be so severe that this will send them down the drain.
I'm honestly curious as to if this will actually work or if the backlash will be so severe that this will send them down the drain.
But I also like to take a step back when I get mad about something and make sure that any reaction I have doesn't screw me even more. At this point if I'm mad that B6 is taking away legroom switching to another airline which still has less room seems a bad idea.
Nov 20, 2014, 8:25 pm
#65
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 176
Thank You Wall Street for you pathological obsession with the Quarterly numbers!
While you are flying around the country in your charters, the JB customers will be experiencing a compromised product. But you don't care, of course.
MAKE THE NUMBERS - that's all that counts.
BAD MOVE JET BLUE! BAAAAAD!!!!
While you are flying around the country in your charters, the JB customers will be experiencing a compromised product. But you don't care, of course.
MAKE THE NUMBERS - that's all that counts.
BAD MOVE JET BLUE! BAAAAAD!!!!
Nov 20, 2014, 8:27 pm
#66
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What is AA giving you that will be better than what you liked about B6? AA will have still have less legroom than B6. The new 3 tiered pricing is likely to be an exact match to AA's Choice, Choice Essential and Choice Plus so no difference there. That's not even counting merger pains which i'm sure will drive you just about nuts or even more nuts than the B6 changes. Seems a bit premature to jump ship.
Nov 20, 2014, 9:16 pm
#67
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Yup, it's a fundamental shift in priorities. The JetBlue brand has always been essentially contrarian / subversive; the others are out to get you, but not us. Now they're aligning themselves with the others. It may not send the company "down the drain," exactly, but its best days are in the books. On its way to becoming just another marginal experience.
Nov 21, 2014, 1:04 am
#68
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: DCA
Programs: B6, AA, AS
Posts: 118
Thanks for that data point. That's the point I was seeking. Will the EMS seats remain? ? ?
That important point has been overlooked in all the press releases I've seen.
So thanks for that info.
There is hope for this customer if EMS will remain an option aboard, regardless of price.
Good Luck to All.
Nov 21, 2014, 6:44 am
#69
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In all seriousness, I will be the first to admit I overreacted at first, shooting off a rant on Facebook for everyone to see without knowing all of the facts. The 190, which I fly more than anything else, is staying the same...WiFi is staying the same (for now)...snacks and drinks remain....basically the core JetBlue experience is staying the same. My home airport is IAD, but I've been doing a lot of DCA flying lately, following B6...and who else am I gonna fly, United and American? My two least favorite airlines? Not happening. Yes, it hurts that they shifted gears, but at the end of the day, I took a step back and realized that even with the changes, they're still the best out there (well, I need to try Virgin and Hawaiian to compare!)
Nov 21, 2014, 7:38 am
#70
Join Date: Apr 2006
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EMS is staying onboard the aircraft. What is changing is the pitch of the core product. The 320s are going to be retrofitted with the same interior and seats that are now on the 321s. The seats on the 321s are getting rave reviews from customers. Customers are saying the are more comfortable and roomier. Also with the new retrofit the 320s are going to receive the new LiveTv system that is installed on the 321s. Larger screens, more channels, ATC Channel and better system reliability. These changes aren't scheduled to start until 2016. Nothing is changing on the 190s. Adding more seats will require a 3rd flight attendant on the aircraft and we couldn't had enough seats without asking you to sit on your neighbors lap to pay for that 3rd FA.
We are getting hammered in the media about all of the changes. Is it fair that it's happening? Partially. Yes in the past we prided ourselves on being different. Corporate took a shift on that but we are still Jetblue. We still have the best crews in the air and are going to take care of you. We are still going to give you all the snacks and drinks that you want. We are going to go out of our way to make sure you are as comfortable as possible. Our core seats will still have the most leg room in coach, even with the additional seats. The 321s currently have the same seat pitch as the 320s will have. The 321s seats are thinner and i'm guessing you won't even notice the loss on 1". I have yet to fly on the 321 so I don't have first hand knowledge. All I have is the sayings coming from those that have flown on it and they loved it.
We are getting hammered in the media about all of the changes. Is it fair that it's happening? Partially. Yes in the past we prided ourselves on being different. Corporate took a shift on that but we are still Jetblue. We still have the best crews in the air and are going to take care of you. We are still going to give you all the snacks and drinks that you want. We are going to go out of our way to make sure you are as comfortable as possible. Our core seats will still have the most leg room in coach, even with the additional seats. The 321s currently have the same seat pitch as the 320s will have. The 321s seats are thinner and i'm guessing you won't even notice the loss on 1". I have yet to fly on the 321 so I don't have first hand knowledge. All I have is the sayings coming from those that have flown on it and they loved it.
Last edited by JetBlueFA; Nov 21, 2014 at 7:43 am
Nov 21, 2014, 8:04 am
#71
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,790
The changes to the product are not bad at all (in fact, I like the A321's better). The nail in the coffin for me is the checked bag. Unless it is cheaper even with a checked bag, it is Southwest or a legacy carrier from here on out. If i'm paying for a bag I might as well fly on a legacy carrier...
Nov 21, 2014, 8:13 am
#72
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EMS is staying onboard the aircraft. What is changing is the pitch of the core product. The 320s are going to be retrofitted with the same interior and seats that are now on the 321s. The seats on the 321s are getting rave reviews from customers. Customers are saying the are more comfortable and roomier. Also with the new retrofit the 320s are going to receive the new LiveTv system that is installed on the 321s. Larger screens, more channels, ATC Channel and better system reliability. These changes aren't scheduled to start until 2016. Nothing is changing on the 190s. Adding more seats will require a 3rd flight attendant on the aircraft and we couldn't had enough seats without asking you to sit on your neighbors lap to pay for that 3rd FA.
We are getting hammered in the media about all of the changes. Is it fair that it's happening? Partially. Yes in the past we prided ourselves on being different. Corporate took a shift on that but we are still Jetblue. We still have the best crews in the air and are going to take care of you. We are still going to give you all the snacks and drinks that you want. We are going to go out of our way to make sure you are as comfortable as possible. Our core seats will still have the most leg room in coach, even with the additional seats. The 321s currently have the same seat pitch as the 320s will have. The 321s seats are thinner and i'm guessing you won't even notice the loss on 1". I have yet to fly on the 321 so I don't have first hand knowledge. All I have is the sayings coming from those that have flown on it and they loved it.
We are getting hammered in the media about all of the changes. Is it fair that it's happening? Partially. Yes in the past we prided ourselves on being different. Corporate took a shift on that but we are still Jetblue. We still have the best crews in the air and are going to take care of you. We are still going to give you all the snacks and drinks that you want. We are going to go out of our way to make sure you are as comfortable as possible. Our core seats will still have the most leg room in coach, even with the additional seats. The 321s currently have the same seat pitch as the 320s will have. The 321s seats are thinner and i'm guessing you won't even notice the loss on 1". I have yet to fly on the 321 so I don't have first hand knowledge. All I have is the sayings coming from those that have flown on it and they loved it.
Nov 21, 2014, 8:39 am
#73
Join Date: Jul 2013
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We still have the best crews in the air and are going to take care of you. We are still going to give you all the snacks and drinks that you want. We are going to go out of our way to make sure you are as comfortable as possible.
Nov 21, 2014, 8:53 am
#74
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You can't make a big deal about being different, spend years and money marketing that, do different things, and then be surprised when people are upset that you've decided to be the same as the others... The problem is now that management has taken the standard airline approach.
Nov 21, 2014, 9:04 am
#75
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I appreciate that, and most people would. The problem is now that management has taken the standard airline approach, labor is the next thing to attack. In the short-sighted approach to management, brash cost-cutting is the fastest way to instantaneous profit growth, even if it is temporary and superficial.
These changes still aren't going to change the fact that myself and my fellow front line crewmembers are still going to go to work and give you our best and deliver on what we are known for, our award winning service. I know it sounds cheesy but it's true.