sheepherder

When this happens it always reminds me of the episode from LA LAW where one of the attorneys was on a flight sitting and he got an injunction to force the airline to let him off.

At first I thought it was more BDL's thought but sfter reading that B6 actually determines where the planes are to go I think it is Jet Blues fault and they should be fined.

LarryJ

It wasn't just JetBlue that diverted to BDL. JetBlue diverted only 6 of the 26 flights that went to BDL. AAL had at least one flight there. Not sure what airlines make up the remaining 19. Only 3 of the 6 JetBlue flights at BDL had the 7 hour ground delay. The other three were unloaded after shorter delays.

bmg42000

But B6 did not know how busy BDL was (and how incorrect the weather forecast was ). They did diversify and send some of the other flights to ACY (I think they were trying to not overload BDL). Also ACY does not have any regular B6 service . I suspect the B6 employees on this board are not allowed to comment about what happened.

fastflyer

Bingo. This has very little to do with BDL and the Bradley operations team. The airlines [are supposed to] handle all things related to gates and aircraft towing/ tugs/ parking.

LarryJ

I've dug up the weather forecasts and reports for Saturday. First the forecast. This is what they would have been looking at prior to departure from Florida.

TAF KBDL 291120Z 2912/3018 02007KT P6SM OVC100
FM291500 03010KT P6SM OVC070
FM291800 03010G18KT 2SM RA BR OVC020
FM292200 02014G22KT 3/4SM -SN BR OVC010
FM300000 01015G25KT 2SM -SN BR OVC008
FM300300 36019G33KT 1SM -SN OVC008
FM300600 34020G34KT 2SM -SN BR OVC010 WS020/35050KT
FM301100 33016G31KT P6SM OVC050=

This forecast was issued at 1120Z (GMT), 7:20 AM Eastern time. It's valid from 1200Z (8:00 AM) on the 29th until 1800Z (2:00 PM) on the 30th.

They arrived BDL at about 1730Z so the part of the forecast valid for that time was the following:

FM291500 03010KT P6SM OVC070

This says: From 11:00 AM on the 29th, winds from 030 degrees at 10 knots, visibility greater than 6 miles, sky conditions overcast clounds at 7,000 feet.

That's a pretty good forecast. It's VFR. No mention of precipitation.

Looking down through the rest of the forecast and you see some rain starting at 2:00 PM and light snow starting at 6:00 PM and continuing through 2:00 AM. Never is the snow forecast to be more than light snow.

There is nothing here to indicate that there will be any problem that would delay flights other than the need for departures to be deiced starting at about 6:00 PM. The flight landed at about 1:30 PM.

I'm not sure at what time the decision was made to divert but here are the weather observations that were issued at about the time that it must have been made.

METAR KBDL 291551Z 01011KT 10SM FEW042 BKN065 OVC120 03/M03 A3014
METAR KBDL 291648Z 01007G16KT 7SM BKN029 OVC042 03/M03 A3010

These were issued at 11:51 AM and 12:48 PM. Winds have picked up from 11 kts to gusts of 16 kts. Visibility has dropped from 10 miles to 7 miles. The ceiling has dropped from 6,500 feet to 4,200 feet.

The airport is still VFR. Nothing in either the forecast or current weather reports indicates that there will be any problem getting airplanes in and out.

The flight lands at about 1730Z (1:30 PM). Here's the current weather obersation taken at 1732Z:

METAR KBDL 291732Z 01009KT 1SM R06/5500VP6000FT -SN BR BKN007 OVC010 01/M01 A3006 RMK AO2 RAE07 PRESFR

This says: Winds from 010 degrees at 9 knts. Visibility 1 mile in light snow and mist. Runway 6 visual range 5,500' variable greater than 6,000'. Sky condition broken clouds at 700', overcast clouds at 1000'. Rain ended at 1707Z. Barometric pressure falling rapidly.

Shortly after they landed the weather deteriorated rapidly and well below forecast. These are listed in reverse order with the top being the last and bottom the first.

METAR KBDL 292151Z 02014G22KT 1/4SM SN+ FG OVC003 01/00 A2994
METAR KBDL 292051Z 36012KT 1/4SM R06/3500V5500FT +SN FG OVC003 01/M01 A2997
METAR KBDL 291951Z 01013KT 1/4SM R06/3500V5500FT SN FG OVC003 01/M01 A2998
METAR KBDL 291851Z 35008KT 1/4SM R06/4000V6000FT SN FG OVC003 01/M01 A3004
METAR KBDL 291751Z 02009KT 1/4SM R06/3000V4500FT SN FG BKN003 OVC007 01/M01 A3006
METAR KBDL 291747Z 01008KT 1/4SM R06/3500V5500FT SN FG BKN003 OVC007 01/M01 A3006
METAR KBDL 291740Z 01009KT 1/4SM R06/4000VP6000FT SN FG VV006 01/M01 A3005

Visibility drops to 1/4 mile with moderate snow, eventually turning to heavy snow, and fog.

So, without using 20/20 hindsight, what in these forecasts should have told JetBlue, American, and all the other airlines that diverted into BDL that they should not have done so?

ctmike

I'm not going to add to the blame game...I think there has been MORE than enough said on that, by folks who have the facts and know what they are talking about and by those who obviously are bored and are just offering unsubstantiated dribble.

To give you an idea of how bad everything is here in CT, > 50% of the state is STILL WITHOUT POWER 5 DAYS AFTER THE STORM. My town is 97% out and we're being told it will be ANOTHER 5 days or so. So, while I don't minimize the agony of the folks on the planes, I sure wouldn't want to go through it, think of us with no heat, no lights, no water (wells), spoiled food, limited restaurants open, many closed gas stations and the ones open have mile long lines.

There are over 700 utility line crews working at the moment and STILL we have ~ 500,000 outages; down from ~900,000. There are still trees resting on power lines and many closed roads. The lines can't be repaired until the downed trees are dealt with. You get the picture....enough said...

So, keep on with the blame game and think of us standing in lines at the local shelter waiting to take a much needed shower.

OK...rant over

Tailgater

Yeah, the way some people make it sound, it's as if JetBlue passengers being forced to stay aboard for seven measly hours in comfortable cabin is worse than those had it with the ill-fated Donner Party during the 1800's. Blame earthquakes, volcanoes, Noreasters, floods, etc., all on the airlines. Now, I suppose those JetBlue passengers all expect to cash in?

BearX220

How many seven-hour ground holds have you been through? Mockery from the comfortable confines of an Internet-equipped desk is not appropriate.

1K-SFO

To me, this whole fiasco boils down to this one line from the pilot:Weather was bad. Airport was overwhelmed.

But at the 2.5-hour mark, how come someone from JetBlue operations wasn't calling that captain (radio, cell phone, somehow) to give instructions and assure that a plan was being put in place for temporary relief if not more.

That comment says to me that JetBlue was MIA when its crew needed support. And that speaks to lack of commitment to contingency plans and, ultimately passenger well-being. Serious fines should be levied.

bmg42000

People were stuck in their cars overnight on route 84/taconic parkway . That is a much scarier situation then the B6 flights (which sucked and I would be vow never to fly them again (until the next sale)). BTW if you are traveling to NY , you should always carry medicine with you (and extra diapers if you are traveling with a baby). 2-3 hour delays are normal even on sunny days. I would never fly into a snow storm on any airline (esp B6) because you do not know were you will end up. Being stuck in FLL >> being stuck in EWR >> being stuck in EWR. Also just because you land in EWR does not mean you will be able to get to your house. I think they should force the COO and his underlings to be stuck on a plane for 6 hours (without the bathrooms working) (and make them only get a could of dull tv channels (and turn of their cell phones)) for punishment. (They could stick them with some angry drunk fans coming back from a football game in which their team lost) for additional punishment.

Brighton Line

Just to post something comparative, last year I was divereted from ORD to GRR when we ran low on fuel and ORD was closed due to snow. I was on an RJ and after we landed it was a game to count how many other planes were divereted.
At our 3 hour mark sitting on the tarmac (not counting the 3 hours from ICT and holding over ORD) our Flight Attendent went under the last seat in the aircraft and came out with a box of granola bars. She annoucned that she was now allowed to pass out these bars and water.
We were constantly told that we were waiting for a gate. Various Elite flyers called their various desks and got different stories then the one the captian gave us. Even being told that we were already deplaned at a gate.
The next game played was watching the fuel trucks and try to guess witch plane they were going to. We also held up signs and past messages between planes (we were that close).
Never got to a gate, got gas and ended up going back to ORD (quick 20 minutes) but buy that time all the flights had left and all the cots were taken.... Didn't need police but this again was a small airport overwhelmed with diverted flights.

bmg42000

You had it much worse then the B6 passengers as you were stuck on a RJ for 6 hours. This just offers more ammunitions for trying to avoid flying in snow storms (the planes may be safe) if at all possible (taking the weather waver if given) . It may be safe to fly but then airports get closed (and you could then be stuck in one ) . Thanx for your story . Next time you are stuck you for 6 hours you should put it on twitter.

Boraxo

I am having difficult reconciling post #110 with #111. On the one hand we are told that the weather report was good, on the other that people are struggling with the (overused term) storm of the century. I have no reason to believe that Larry's summary is inaccurate in any way, yet I have yet to see a winter storm in the latter category that wasn't forecast hours if not days in advance. It's not like an earthquake that hits without warning. The only thing that can't be forecast is the level of damage. So either the airlines are relying on very old forecasts, or they don't watch the weather channel. This itself is remarkable as smooth airline ops are extremely dependent on weather - so you'd think the airlines would have the best, up-to-the-minute info to guide their decisions. Something doesn't make sense here.

The other issue that concerns me is the lack of backup generators at BDL. Many businesses (and even a few homes) have portable generators, it is inexcusable that an airport would not have enough power to at least run essential ops, i.e. ramps, beyond simply the ATC tower.

But all this begs the question: If 26 flights were diverted to BDL, why were the 3 jetblue flights (and 1 AA plane) stuck for 6+ hours when the others were deplaned within the guidelines. Sorry, but that's not an indication that these flights were waiting patiently at the end of the line, but rather that management made a series of bad calls. In my business, if you screwed up like this heads would roll.

LarryJ

Those forecasts are not very specific as to location and time. You know that there will be a big storm but you don't know specifically where will get hit hard and where will not. You don't know when each location will get hit.

The aviation forecast, issued three times per day, is very specific. It covers a five-mile radius of the airport and lists specific times.

The storm did not do what it was forecast to do. It wasn't forecast to hit BDL that early nor that hard.

Because one airplane goes first and one get's stuck going last.

The first few airplanes to arrive were intending to refuel and depart. They were parked away from the terminal in anticipation of refueling and a quick departure. Flights that arrived later knew that they were staying so they ended up at the front of the line for deplaning due to their location.

bmg42000

Thank you for more detailed information about what happened. It is never as simple as it sounds.