B6 504 EWR-FLL diverted to BDL, calling for police on board the aircraft
Oct 30, 2011, 10:48 am
#16
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: Marriott lifetime Platinum (30 years of work!)
Posts: 4
JetBlue cites "infrastructure" problem, is that just lack of gates?
Seems like they have a problem prioritizing - this plane shouldn't have even been sent out after refueling... if the news reports are accurate.
I've only heard of one situation where airplane tires were immobilized, so what happened here?
I've only heard of one situation where airplane tires were immobilized, so what happened here?
Oct 30, 2011, 11:39 am
#18
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 325
When your resume shows you have airline operational experience dealing with weather and operational disruptions, then feel free to chime in like the expert you pretend to be.
Oct 30, 2011, 11:42 am
#19
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 325
Sounds like the BDL manager should have got on the fone early on with the JetBlue ops center and declared his station unable to receive any more flights, scheduled or unscheduled, based on the operating conditions of the airport.
Oct 30, 2011, 11:49 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 325
I thought the new law was to tow the plane if it has been diverted and has been sitting on the runway for more than 2 hours with no food and water . Why couldn't they at least park at a remote stand and shuttle everyone to the terminal?
Furthermore why didn't Jetblue reserve hotels, give food vouchers etc? Since it was at Bradley why couldn't Jetblue get water/beverages/food from LSG Skychefs? Or at least bring all passengers to the terminal for pizza soda etc.
I think all passengers are owed a refund+violation of the new law.
Furthermore why didn't Jetblue reserve hotels, give food vouchers etc? Since it was at Bradley why couldn't Jetblue get water/beverages/food from LSG Skychefs? Or at least bring all passengers to the terminal for pizza soda etc.
I think all passengers are owed a refund+violation of the new law.
*Was BDL an appropriate alternate to divert to? BDL station manager must be able to get on the phone with with JetBlue operation center and proclaim whether his station and staff are able accomodate any more flights, scheduled or unscheduled, regardless if the airport is still open for departures/arrivals.
*Was it safe to deplane on the ramp, with airstairs, in snow and ice conditions?
*What was the game plan to accomodate the passengers? Assuming it was next to impossible to charter a bus to EWR in those conditions nor get a slew of rooms, would it have hurt to get the company credit card and find pillows, cots, and blankets? At the start of the daily rotations, these are questions service recovery folks need to have answered before launch in such conditions.
Oct 30, 2011, 12:51 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
It absolutely has to be the responsibility of both the airlines and airports to put *real* contingency plans into place. As I said in another thread:
Part of the problem is the ingrained response (and often defense here) of "ooh, it's weather! The airline can't control the weather!" used to excuse any and all action or inaction, regardless of the cost to the passenger or whether the airline could mitigate it.
No, the airline doesn't control the weather, but they do control their response to it -- scheduling, contingency planning, agreements with airport authorities, decisions on where to divert...none of which are under any control of the passenger.
Americans (and others!) have solved incredibly complex problems throughout our history. I simply can't believe that it's impossible to have a contingency plan at each airport designed to get passengers off of airplanes and into the terminal, at a reasonable cost. Everything from gate contracts specifying that any other airline can borrow the gate and any workers present (with extra pay) in an unloading emergency, to airstairs and designated pathways to an entry door in the baggage service area should be considered in those plans.
What seems to be needed to get the contingency planner's attention is even more fines (and probably liability to each passenger, say $50/hour over 3 hours), plus a requirement to file those contingency plans, both from each airline and each airport that wants to continue having commercial service.
Part of the problem is the ingrained response (and often defense here) of "ooh, it's weather! The airline can't control the weather!" used to excuse any and all action or inaction, regardless of the cost to the passenger or whether the airline could mitigate it.
No, the airline doesn't control the weather, but they do control their response to it -- scheduling, contingency planning, agreements with airport authorities, decisions on where to divert...none of which are under any control of the passenger.
Americans (and others!) have solved incredibly complex problems throughout our history. I simply can't believe that it's impossible to have a contingency plan at each airport designed to get passengers off of airplanes and into the terminal, at a reasonable cost. Everything from gate contracts specifying that any other airline can borrow the gate and any workers present (with extra pay) in an unloading emergency, to airstairs and designated pathways to an entry door in the baggage service area should be considered in those plans.
What seems to be needed to get the contingency planner's attention is even more fines (and probably liability to each passenger, say $50/hour over 3 hours), plus a requirement to file those contingency plans, both from each airline and each airport that wants to continue having commercial service.
Oct 30, 2011, 1:24 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 334
Has anything changed for the better in this regard since David Neeleman left jetBlue?
This is deja vu of a few years ago.
It seems that jetBlue still lacks the infrastructure to handle flight irregularities.
No doubt, the Black and Blue supporters will latch on to every excuse known to man, not the least of which is the weather, and next the airport, but many businesses consider it "their business" to be dealing with irregularities and emergencies, and respond to irregularities like they are regularities.
And to think, jetBlue has a presence and daily operations at BDL........
Just some more Black and Blue passengers.............damaged like pears in the Produce Department.
This is deja vu of a few years ago.
It seems that jetBlue still lacks the infrastructure to handle flight irregularities.
No doubt, the Black and Blue supporters will latch on to every excuse known to man, not the least of which is the weather, and next the airport, but many businesses consider it "their business" to be dealing with irregularities and emergencies, and respond to irregularities like they are regularities.
And to think, jetBlue has a presence and daily operations at BDL........
Just some more Black and Blue passengers.............damaged like pears in the Produce Department.
Oct 30, 2011, 4:46 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,170
Based on the weather conditions at EWR, why did the flight even depart FLL. So it left, why did they go to Hartford, the weather was woese there.
Jet Blue is getting bad press again, the same airline they had the problem at JFK a few years back.
Most airlines have operations centers where every aircraft is watched, they have access to the latest weather data. Very bad coordination to have people stuck on plane for 7 hours is rediculous. Now they are trying to blame the airport. You made the stupid decision to land there so it is your problem.
Jet Blue is getting bad press again, the same airline they had the problem at JFK a few years back.
Most airlines have operations centers where every aircraft is watched, they have access to the latest weather data. Very bad coordination to have people stuck on plane for 7 hours is rediculous. Now they are trying to blame the airport. You made the stupid decision to land there so it is your problem.
Oct 30, 2011, 6:10 pm
#24
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: Marriott Plat
Posts: 946
My understanding is that the ILS at EWR went down, which caused a ton of last-minute diversions across lots of carriers. That's not B6's issue, but it was a total failure when the plane landed.
Someone posted a recording to LiveATC of some of the conversation between the plane and the tower. Seems like total chaos, but the pilot said that B6 was not being responsive.
http://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php
Someone posted a recording to LiveATC of some of the conversation between the plane and the tower. Seems like total chaos, but the pilot said that B6 was not being responsive.
http://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php
Oct 30, 2011, 6:38 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
Easier said than done. YOU try offloading a full A320 in slippery snow conditions safely and expeditiously, and try to set up a game plan to get them either to EWR in hazardous road travel conditions or find rooms and meals for people.
When your resume shows you have airline operational experience dealing with weather and operational disruptions, then feel free to chime in like the expert you pretend to be.
When your resume shows you have airline operational experience dealing with weather and operational disruptions, then feel free to chime in like the expert you pretend to be.
This:
It absolutely has to be the responsibility of both the airlines and airports to put *real* contingency plans into place. As I said in another thread:
Part of the problem is the ingrained response (and often defense here) of "ooh, it's weather! The airline can't control the weather!" used to excuse any and all action or inaction, regardless of the cost to the passenger or whether the airline could mitigate it.
No, the airline doesn't control the weather, but they do control their response to it -- scheduling, contingency planning, agreements with airport authorities, decisions on where to divert...none of which are under any control of the passenger.
Americans (and others!) have solved incredibly complex problems throughout our history. I simply can't believe that it's impossible to have a contingency plan at each airport designed to get passengers off of airplanes and into the terminal, at a reasonable cost. Everything from gate contracts specifying that any other airline can borrow the gate and any workers present (with extra pay) in an unloading emergency, to airstairs and designated pathways to an entry door in the baggage service area should be considered in those plans.
What seems to be needed to get the contingency planner's attention is even more fines (and probably liability to each passenger, say $50/hour over 3 hours), plus a requirement to file those contingency plans, both from each airline and each airport that wants to continue having commercial service.
Part of the problem is the ingrained response (and often defense here) of "ooh, it's weather! The airline can't control the weather!" used to excuse any and all action or inaction, regardless of the cost to the passenger or whether the airline could mitigate it.
No, the airline doesn't control the weather, but they do control their response to it -- scheduling, contingency planning, agreements with airport authorities, decisions on where to divert...none of which are under any control of the passenger.
Americans (and others!) have solved incredibly complex problems throughout our history. I simply can't believe that it's impossible to have a contingency plan at each airport designed to get passengers off of airplanes and into the terminal, at a reasonable cost. Everything from gate contracts specifying that any other airline can borrow the gate and any workers present (with extra pay) in an unloading emergency, to airstairs and designated pathways to an entry door in the baggage service area should be considered in those plans.
What seems to be needed to get the contingency planner's attention is even more fines (and probably liability to each passenger, say $50/hour over 3 hours), plus a requirement to file those contingency plans, both from each airline and each airport that wants to continue having commercial service.
Mike
Oct 30, 2011, 6:41 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Arlington, Va.
Posts: 321
Second Horror Flight
There was ANOTHER JetBlue diversion to Hartford where passengers ALSO were on plane for 6plus hours. Flight was BOS-JFK .... had a friend onboard. Absolute horror, he tells me.
Shame on JetBlue. You'd think they would have learned from that Valentine Day fiasco a few years ago
Shame on JetBlue. You'd think they would have learned from that Valentine Day fiasco a few years ago
Oct 30, 2011, 6:54 pm
#28
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Here and there
Programs: General member, former 1P
Posts: 583
The Weather Channel has a report including still photos of firefighters on the aircraft and an interview with a passenger after he got into the terminal. link
A poster upthread demanded someone's airline management credentials. The whole point of FT is giving "amateurs" like myself the opportunity to ask questions, vent and share our thoughts.
I don't know much about airline management, but I do know a little about bureaucracies and turf. Situations like this are disasters-in-waiting because no one involved is willing to go beyond their job descriptions. Look at the key players in this situation: the airport executive director, the JetBlue station manager, the FAA tower boss, and the offsite JetBlue ops center.
None of those people got where they are by taking risks, and none of them were going to say "by gum, we're going to get that plane in right now to whatever gate is open, and take care of them once inside." Maybe the JetBlue rampers had gone home -- again, if the station manager wanted to really take charge he would have told the rampers they were sleeping at the airport that night or they were fired. And so on. It took the governor busting heads to make anything happen.
People don't become FAA tower managers or airport executive directors by going above and beyond or by taking risks. Same for airline station managers. So it's easier to let a plane full of passengers be someone else's problem,
A poster upthread demanded someone's airline management credentials. The whole point of FT is giving "amateurs" like myself the opportunity to ask questions, vent and share our thoughts.
I don't know much about airline management, but I do know a little about bureaucracies and turf. Situations like this are disasters-in-waiting because no one involved is willing to go beyond their job descriptions. Look at the key players in this situation: the airport executive director, the JetBlue station manager, the FAA tower boss, and the offsite JetBlue ops center.
None of those people got where they are by taking risks, and none of them were going to say "by gum, we're going to get that plane in right now to whatever gate is open, and take care of them once inside." Maybe the JetBlue rampers had gone home -- again, if the station manager wanted to really take charge he would have told the rampers they were sleeping at the airport that night or they were fired. And so on. It took the governor busting heads to make anything happen.
People don't become FAA tower managers or airport executive directors by going above and beyond or by taking risks. Same for airline station managers. So it's easier to let a plane full of passengers be someone else's problem,
Oct 30, 2011, 7:10 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2008
Location: new york
Programs: trueblue ,mileageplus skymiles, hilton honors silver
Posts: 965
Makes sense
The Weather Channel has a report including still photos of firefighters on the aircraft and an interview with a passenger after he got into the terminal. link
A poster upthread demanded someone's airline management credentials. The whole point of FT is giving "amateurs" like myself the opportunity to ask questions, vent and share our thoughts.
I don't know much about airline management, but I do know a little about bureaucracies and turf. Situations like this are disasters-in-waiting because no one involved is willing to go beyond their job descriptions. Look at the key players in this situation: the airport executive director, the JetBlue station manager, the FAA tower boss, and the offsite JetBlue ops center.
None of those people got where they are by taking risks, and none of them were going to say "by gum, we're going to get that plane in right now to whatever gate is open, and take care of them once inside." Maybe the JetBlue rampers had gone home -- again, if the station manager wanted to really take charge he would have told the rampers they were sleeping at the airport that night or they were fired. And so on. It took the governor busting heads to make anything happen.
People don't become FAA tower managers or airport executive directors by going above and beyond or by taking risks. Same for airline station managers. So it's easier to let a plane full of passengers be someone else's problem,
A poster upthread demanded someone's airline management credentials. The whole point of FT is giving "amateurs" like myself the opportunity to ask questions, vent and share our thoughts.
I don't know much about airline management, but I do know a little about bureaucracies and turf. Situations like this are disasters-in-waiting because no one involved is willing to go beyond their job descriptions. Look at the key players in this situation: the airport executive director, the JetBlue station manager, the FAA tower boss, and the offsite JetBlue ops center.
None of those people got where they are by taking risks, and none of them were going to say "by gum, we're going to get that plane in right now to whatever gate is open, and take care of them once inside." Maybe the JetBlue rampers had gone home -- again, if the station manager wanted to really take charge he would have told the rampers they were sleeping at the airport that night or they were fired. And so on. It took the governor busting heads to make anything happen.
People don't become FAA tower managers or airport executive directors by going above and beyond or by taking risks. Same for airline station managers. So it's easier to let a plane full of passengers be someone else's problem,
Sounds about right. I wouldn't be surprised if the fault of both on B6 and BDL/ATC as both may be tried to hand the problem off to the other . There may be rules that prohibit going out on the ramp during hazardous conditions .