jmastron

I live in California (but grew up in CT and have family there) and I knew about it -- this was a headline forecast on the Courant's website at least as far back as Thursday, predicting 8-10" of snow for the band of CT that includes BDL, and pointing out that an early season storm with heavy wet snow combined with leaves still on trees would have a huge impact.

Presumably BDL and B6 operations have access to a weather forecast at least as good...

volvo99

There IS a standard procedure; it is called an airline's Operations Specifications. It is a manual determining how an airline will conduct itself in normal and emergency situations such as weather and security, and is a mandatory approved document by the DOT necessary for an airline to receive its operating certificate. So, therefore, JetBlue DOES have a weather recovery plan that is, by rule, approved by the DOT. However, these manuals can often be vague, and it appears that there is a lack of out-of-the box thinking when it comes to preparing for these events, and it also sheds light on JetBlue's struggle to transition from a startup mentality to that of a major.

volvo99

Yes they do; all certificated air carriers have access to weather services from NOAA, as well as their own in-house or contracted weather forecasters. This was no secret. Unfortunately, despite the dire forecast, no contingency plans set up by JetBlue seemed to account for the impact this would have on the operation.
My feel is that this "gung-ho" attitude at JetBlue to continue to operate in these conditions comes from the us vs. them mentality of competing against the hub legacy carriers in their markets. JetBlue loves being the last carrier out, first carrier back after a weather event, and hate cancelling due to weather when the competition is still flying.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

Then the manual should spell out a specific designee in the company that is ultimately responsible for emergency situations, whether its a plane crash, an a/c stuck on a runway, a severe passenger issue, etc. And if that person cannot resolve the situation in a timely and effective manner, then he/she should know their next point of contact (likely somewhere at or near the C level).

Someone at the top of Jetblue's management team should have been in personal contact with the most senior manager of the BDL airport authority.

Also, the change in weather Saturday came very quickly. So its understandable that it first caught airport and airline management off guard. But there is no reason specific contigency plans are not followed in the event of an unexpected problem.

volvo99

To that degree, Ops Specs can be that detailed; they are updated constantly to reflect who is in charge such as director of safety, director of operations, and also detail the chain of command to be followed in such an event. Unfortunately, I just don't think there is a robust enough decision making process at JetBlue to ask tough, honest questions about operating in severe weather conditions.

OPNLguy

I'd agree. Strictly from an operational perspective as a dispatcher (not-JBU) here's what the ILS issue was...

What happened at EWR?

It was snowing, with strong winds dictating exclusive use of runways 04L and 04R. The normal ILS Cat-I landing minimums for each runway is going down to a 200-foot cloud ceiling (above the ground) and the minimum visibility (required) is 1/2 mile:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1111/00285IL4L.PDF

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1111/00285IL4R.PDF

Part of the respective ILS (Instrument Landing System) for each runway is something called a glideslope (GS) [or glidepath (GP)] antenna, and there are actually three of them all mounted on the common mast. Sometimes they're open, and sometimes they have covers on them.

http://www.thalesatminc.com/Technology/Glideslope.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bob_butcher/515719883/

http://media.photobucket.com/image/i...0889copy-1.jpg

The snow (especially wet snow) can eventually accumulate on the glideslope/glidepath antenna such that it can distort the signal that the aircraft receives. This is quite obviously not a good thing when one is low to the ground, and visibility is such that you can't see the runway.

Excerpted from a FAA manual:

7-1-6. SNOW CONDITIONS AFFECTING GLIDE SLOPE OPERATION a. Snow and ice accumulation in the vicinity of glide slope antennas may affect facility performance to the extent that restrictions to the ILS landing minimums must be imposed.

When snow accumulation on the glideslope/glidepath antennas is such that restrictions must be implemented, those "normal" landing minimums of a 200-foot cloud ceiling and a required 1/2 mile visibility increase to a 600-foot cloud ceiling and a required visibility of 1 mile.

The remaining available approach at EWR that day was a RNAV GPS approach to runway 04R, with minimums of a 400-foot cloud ceiling and a required visibility of 3/4 mile.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1111/00285RY4R.PDF

As the visibility fluctuated between 1/2 mile to 1 mile from one minute to the next, some aircraft were legal to start the approach (and some were not) depending upon where they were at the precise time the visibility changed (up or down). Admittedly, it doesn't make for a reliable operation, but operations in this scenario are completely at the whim of Mother Nature, and not within any airline's control, despite popular and media-enhanced belief to the contrary.

ATC HQ in the Washington area sent number advisories out regarding EWR, as well as all the airports affected by snow. The delay information is expressed in minutes, so those 528 and 374 figures equate to 8:48 and 6:14, respectively, and represent the amount of delay any EWR-bound flight would be taking at its departure point.

ATCSCC ADVZY 036 EWR/ZNY 10/29/2011 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAM
MESSAGE: CTL ELEMENT: EWR
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 1800Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: UDP
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 29/1800Z - 30/0559Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 29/1800Z - 30/0559Z
PROGRAM RATE: 10/15/16/16/16/16/16/16/25/25/25/25
FLT INCL: ALL CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (ALL+CZY_AP) ZAB ZSE ZFW ZKC ZME ZTL ZOA ZLC ZLA ZAU ZMP
ZDV ZID ZMA ZHU ZJX ZBW ZOB ZDC ZNY
ADDITIONAL DEP FACILITIES INCLUDED:
CANADIAN DEP ARPTS INCLUDED: CYHZ CYOW CYUL CYYZ CYTZ CYQB
DELAY ASSIGNMENT TABLE APPLIES TO: ZNY
MAXIMUM DELAY: 528
AVERAGE DELAY: 374
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / SNOW-ICE
COMMENTS: RNAV GPS APPROACH TO RWY 04R. GS CURRENTLY O/S.

Since implementation of DOT’s 3-hour rule, airlines are (out of necessity) much more prone to cancel flights in advance, rather than to attempt continued operations in what will be “no-win” weather situations. Most simply stated, ground operations during major winter storms are not likely to occur within any DOT-mandated 3-hour window, irrespective of their being scheduled flights or diverted flights. With potential DOT fines of $27,500 per passenger, each offending flight becomes a potentially multi-million dollar liability, and no airline can afford it, hence increased cancellations and diversions.

Some diversions might be into airports close the originally intended destination (assuming their weather isn’t as bad as the originally intended destination) but sometimes it’s better to get passengers all the back to their origins so they can at least sleep in their own beds. The item below is just one oddball diversion that various airlines all had on Saturday:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...605Z/KPHX/KEWR

Mother Nature deals all the cards here, and the airlines just play the hand they’re dealt…

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

In most corporations contigency planning identifies a certain position rather than name per se as personnel changes. I would think this should have gone to the COO (or like senior officer) that would have really quickly conferenced with Barger in what course of action to take. If the final verdict from BDL airport is we aren't doing squat we are busy then the next step is to arrange for post flight assistance and PR support to defend your actions.

It sounds like Jetblue still has not matured as a corporation. Or maybe they take the belief it all blows over after awhile anyway so why really bother.

mikeef

From the article put out by the reporter, I found this quote to be particularly interesting:

Good for the second passenger.

Mike

jn in ca

One dimension of this that I haven't seen talked about here is the choice of BDL as the diversion. I know (not that I have inside sources) that the choice of BDL is getting a serious look from the NTSB. It was no mystery that the weather was just as bad in Conn. as Newark, and BDL has fewer resources than the bigger airports.

The fines were supposed to prevent airlines from doing this. Well, it appears the fines were not high enough. Raise them, or at least impose the max.

Jetblue, and a few FTers, bring up that Newark conditions were not Jetblue's fault; power outages in Conn. were not Jetblue's fault. True, but Jetblue still should've had a plan to account for this.

In spite of all the "out of our control" excuses they make, if you make the fine severe enough, Jetblue will darn well have a better contingency plan in place next time.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

You do have to wonder did B6 just go to BDL because it was the closest rather than burn additional fuel to turn south lets say to BWI where there were no weather issues (assuming there was enough fuel onboard).

jmastron

I did! (might have been in the other thread). Yes, anyone looking at the forecast could see that BDL was right in the same path EWR was, and if it was snowing "earlier than predicted" at EWR, BDL wouldn't be far behind. I'm sure there were many better choices to divert to.

And you're right -- while a lot of blame certainly goes to the airport here, the central point to be accountable really has to be the airline; they're the ones in position to ensure that their vendors (the airports) are providing the service (contingency agreements in this case) that they need to have. The FAA just needs to make sure this is something the airline "needs to have", either explicitly up front, or by massive fining when they fail to do so.

We're not talking about 9/11 here, with thousands of planes all ordered to land immediately; this was a winter storm affecting a small percentage of major airports, with many nearby major airports unaffected. It's entirely reasonable to expect that to be handled with a sense of urgency.

anchor79

Should I say: Opps, Jetblue did it again! :P

buckeyefanflyer

As a result of all these past incidents, all larger airports should have area
called a critical control area where planes can sent when they are stuck with no where to go to deplane passengers. Have an agrrement in place with local bus companies to get buses to the airport to get the passenegrs off the aircraft and take them to the terminal. Airport also needs stairs which can be used for the different types of aircraft. What is so difficult about this and there is no excuse for making people sit on a aircraft for more then a few hours.

jj1987

Because when a passenger busts their butt coming down the stairs in the snow, there's going to be a thread titled "JetBlue allows passengers to deplane in dangerous conditions". When they don't do that, you get what you have now. Remember what happens when some turbulence comes into play?


When you start forcing airlines to pay huge fines for taking the risk and sending people to their destinations, you motivate them to cancel flights over less and less likely storms. I would like to risk being stuck for 7 hours, rather than have a business meeting canceled every time a winter storm looked like it MIGHT happen.

If you want to fix the problem, write congress and ask that the $27,000 fine law be extended to include protection for airlines who allow passengers off the aircraft during foul weather with warning. I'm big into cave diving, a potentially dangerous activity that many of us enjoy. In some states, activist groups have gotten legal protection for landowners who allow access to a dangerous environment.

Analise

No gates available for over 7 hours? No buses until after they've been stuck out there for over 7 hours? Why is there no attention to that? Where is the statement from the BDL aiport manager you mentioned above? Why hasn't the FAA commented about the "degraded capability of the airport"? Something isn't right here and for some reason, BDL is being protected from taking responsibility...you'd think the MEDIA might wonder about BDL's responsibility.