Ski-in/out resort
Jan 7, 2018, 7:50 pm
#31
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: HH Diamond, GHA Titanium
Posts: 1,961
Hijacking the thread a little ... have any of you ski'ied in Zao Onsen before by any chance?
Thinking of doing a late-Feb short trip there because (partially) of the Zao snow monsters and proximity to the Zao Fox Village.
Google/TripAdvisor seems to suggest that the ski infrastructure / equipment rental there is old and limited? For comparison I've only ever ski'ed in Nozawa Onsen in Japan.
Thinking of doing a late-Feb short trip there because (partially) of the Zao snow monsters and proximity to the Zao Fox Village.
Google/TripAdvisor seems to suggest that the ski infrastructure / equipment rental there is old and limited? For comparison I've only ever ski'ed in Nozawa Onsen in Japan.
Jan 7, 2018, 9:07 pm
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
the bus- whiteliner- is the one I always used. It costs not too much and is excellent and runs to end march. Highly recommend.
rusutsu you could still have a decent time, though I find it needs a bit more snow to be decent and is quite flat, as a resort.
the Westin has ok slope access, about similar to Tomamu.
rusutsu you could still have a decent time, though I find it needs a bit more snow to be decent and is quite flat, as a resort.
the Westin has ok slope access, about similar to Tomamu.
Jan 7, 2018, 9:15 pm
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
Hijacking the thread a little ... have any of you ski'ied in Zao Onsen before by any chance?
Thinking of doing a late-Feb short trip there because (partially) of the Zao snow monsters and proximity to the Zao Fox Village.
Google/TripAdvisor seems to suggest that the ski infrastructure / equipment rental there is old and limited? For comparison I've only ever ski'ed in Nozawa Onsen in Japan.
Thinking of doing a late-Feb short trip there because (partially) of the Zao snow monsters and proximity to the Zao Fox Village.
Google/TripAdvisor seems to suggest that the ski infrastructure / equipment rental there is old and limited? For comparison I've only ever ski'ed in Nozawa Onsen in Japan.
But based on everything I've read from recent Internet reviews, what you say seems true to an extent about Zao. However, I think most Japanese skiers would put Zao on the must-ski list. It's sort of a legendary place. If you want the assurances of better organization and modernity, then another Tohoku resort to look into would be Appi.
Jan 9, 2018, 9:52 pm
#34
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: HH Diamond, GHA Titanium
Posts: 1,961
Thanks, I'm sold.. I've all but finalized my plans for mid-Feb. Fly in to Tokyo, do 3 nights in Zao (mid-week), then the Fox Village. Still undecided whether to head back to Tokyo after that or have a look at Yamagata (Ginsan Onsen in particular looks amazing) before heading home.
Jan 13, 2018, 4:37 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
Big ski mountains of Jpn (>200ha, >200m vertical, >20runs)
Spreadsheet I put together.
Shiga Kogen was excluded, because it seems more like a collection of different ski areas some of which are not connected by lift/slope.
Kagura and Joetsu Kokusai look good on paper (stat-wise) due to their layout, but it seems to me that they're actually smaller resorts than their stats suggest.
Zao, Nozawa Onsen and Happo-one seem like Jpn's big-3, although there's probably no concensus on that.
Shiga Kogen was excluded, because it seems more like a collection of different ski areas some of which are not connected by lift/slope.
Kagura and Joetsu Kokusai look good on paper (stat-wise) due to their layout, but it seems to me that they're actually smaller resorts than their stats suggest.
Zao, Nozawa Onsen and Happo-one seem like Jpn's big-3, although there's probably no concensus on that.
Jan 14, 2018, 4:30 am
#36
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bali
Posts: 261
Just wanted to report back that NASPA really was excellent and served our purpose well. ...
As for skiing, it's a small mountain, and I kept doing the same run over and over. Nonetheless it was surprisingly satisfying. There's this very wide intermediate run just to the left of the quad chairlift on the left side of the mountain. I kept doing that one over and over, and I never got tired of it. On the last day, I discovered that the terrain at the right base of the mountain was pretty awesome although only ~400m long, and I started doing that one over and over. I was just about the only person skiing that run, so had it all to myself. Despite the hotel being sold out, zero queue at any of the chairlifts. Ski school was wonderful. Again fraction of the fees at Whistler. My kids did group lessons, but only 1-3 other kids in the group each time. Teachers were wonderful, all professional.
As for skiing, it's a small mountain, and I kept doing the same run over and over. Nonetheless it was surprisingly satisfying. There's this very wide intermediate run just to the left of the quad chairlift on the left side of the mountain. I kept doing that one over and over, and I never got tired of it. On the last day, I discovered that the terrain at the right base of the mountain was pretty awesome although only ~400m long, and I started doing that one over and over. I was just about the only person skiing that run, so had it all to myself. Despite the hotel being sold out, zero queue at any of the chairlifts. Ski school was wonderful. Again fraction of the fees at Whistler. My kids did group lessons, but only 1-3 other kids in the group each time. Teachers were wonderful, all professional.
I'm still looking for a suitable option so your post about NASPA was really timely. Did you sign your kids up for private or group lessons? I only see the option for private lessons on their website but you mention group lessons. Do you recall the cost?
Have you been to Gala Yuzawa? How would you compare NASPA to it? I've done a day trip to Gala Yuzawa and found it to be extremely crowded (relative to Niseko at least) but I liked the range of terrain.
What I also liked about Gala Yuzawa is that it's really easy to get to, especially if you can use the JR Tokyo Wide Pass for confirmed Shinkansen seats.
Jan 14, 2018, 12:31 pm
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
I'm thinking about taking my son skiing outside Tokyo one of these weekends. He's been to Niseko, and loves it there, but it's gotten too expensive and I always have problems with the Hilton's on-site snow school. The school seems to cater mainly to beginners, so every group lesson ends up being a beginner lesson.
I'm still looking for a suitable option so your post about NASPA was really timely. Did you sign your kids up for private or group lessons? I only see the option for private lessons on their website but you mention group lessons. Do you recall the cost?
Have you been to Gala Yuzawa? How would you compare NASPA to it? I've done a day trip to Gala Yuzawa and found it to be extremely crowded (relative to Niseko at least) but I liked the range of terrain.
What I also liked about Gala Yuzawa is that it's really easy to get to, especially if you can use the JR Tokyo Wide Pass for confirmed Shinkansen seats.
I'm still looking for a suitable option so your post about NASPA was really timely. Did you sign your kids up for private or group lessons? I only see the option for private lessons on their website but you mention group lessons. Do you recall the cost?
Have you been to Gala Yuzawa? How would you compare NASPA to it? I've done a day trip to Gala Yuzawa and found it to be extremely crowded (relative to Niseko at least) but I liked the range of terrain.
What I also liked about Gala Yuzawa is that it's really easy to get to, especially if you can use the JR Tokyo Wide Pass for confirmed Shinkansen seats.
I haven't skiied Gala yet, although I'm quite familiar with Gala since I've taken my kids there for ski school and have rented skis and gone up to the mid-mountain to hang out while the kids took lessons. When I've been to Gala, I don't recall lift queues looking that bad even if there's a lot more people on the slopes than NASPA. So maybe it won't be so bad if you go on a non-holiday weekday.
NASPA group lesson is 3200yen for one lesson (half-day), 5300yen for two (full-day). Lessons are at 10a-12p or 1.30p-3.30p. We did group lessons. Really excellent. # of people usually 5 or less per group, sometimes as little as 2. Keep in mind, this is all Japanese lessons. If your son only speaks English, then you need to take lessons through a separate company called Canyons or something... NASPA apparently outsources English ski school to them. I can't vouch for Canyons' quality. If you decide to do lessons in Japanese with NASPA, though, I think they're unbeatable. I'm intermediate and got a lot out of the lesson. There were advanced skiers taking group lessons, too. Only my kids have taken lessons at Gala, so I can't comment too much on the ski school at Gala. But Gala group lessons will likely have a lot more people per group than NASPA, so it's hard to imagine Gala being better than NASPA school-wise. Again all of this is regarding NASPA's regular Japanese lessons.
NASPA is a small mountain. Not that many runs. If you're intermediate, there're basically only 3 runs and each is probably only 400-600 meters long. But they're a lot of fun. They're wide with few other skiers. The really wide blue run towards the left of the mountain is especially enjoyable. With no lift lines, it'd take 6 minutes to ride up and ski down, and I must've done that loop 50x or more. Never got tired of it.
Just based on seeing the mountain upfront, looking at the trail map and talking to my sibling who's skiied there, Gala is a good-size mountain. NASPA is quite a bit smaller. There's also Kandatsu Kogen which you might look into. Even though you have to take the shuttle bus to NASPA, they run all the time and it's only a few minutes from the station. So even though Gala is right at the station and hard to beat, NASPA is pretty easy to get to, as well.
What really sets Gala apart from NASPA is Gala's extensive facility for day users. Gala, as you know, has a spacious facility with rentals and large locker/changing area under one room, adjoined to both bullet train and gondola to boot. On the other hand, NASPA is not as well set-up for day users. The changing / locker room is really small, and rental is located in a different building.
You can use Tokyo Wide Pass for Gala, NASPA and any other Yuzawa area ski places, as well as places like Manza (shuttle bus from Karuizawa), Joetsu Kokusai and Kagura (shuttle bus from Yuzawa).
Jan 21, 2018, 9:48 pm
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
the bus- whiteliner- is the one I always used. It costs not too much and is excellent and runs to end march. Highly recommend.
rusutsu you could still have a decent time, though I find it needs a bit more snow to be decent and is quite flat, as a resort.
the Westin has ok slope access, about similar to Tomamu.
rusutsu you could still have a decent time, though I find it needs a bit more snow to be decent and is quite flat, as a resort.
the Westin has ok slope access, about similar to Tomamu.
I'd really like to do Hilton. I'm Hilton Diamond and Niseko Hilton always treats me well, whereas I really am not too familiar with SPG in general. But Hilton is so out of the way. It's 3.5hrs from the hotel via shuttle & slow local trains to Sapporo, whereas Westin has a 2hr free shuttle bus to Sapporo. Plus Westin has a pool, although I understand that it is in a completely separate complex and you take a monorail to get there.
When you say Westin has ok slope access, how good/bad is it? I'm seeing many reviews saying that it takes a long time to get to the lift from Westin (but they don't quantify) and that it's not a true ski in/out resort. Do you recall how long it takes to go from the room to the slopes? And where do people keep skis overnight? Also, do you know how it works as far as getting to the pool? Usually when you go to a hotel pool, you just go in swimsuit, T-shirt and flip-flops. At Westin, though, it seems like it'll be very cold going to/from the pool?
Also, how does onsen at Westin compare to the one at Hilton?
Have you been to Sheraton Kiroro btw? If so, how do they (hotel, skiing) compare to Hilton? Sorry for asking so many questions. Anyone else is welcome to chime in.
Jan 22, 2018, 1:08 am
#40
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Posts: 20,436
You can ski in Tokyo today!
Jan 22, 2018, 2:30 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond
Posts: 372
I'm thinking about taking my son skiing outside Tokyo one of these weekends. He's been to Niseko, and loves it there, but it's gotten too expensive and I always have problems with the Hilton's on-site snow school. The school seems to cater mainly to beginners, so every group lesson ends up being a beginner lesson.
I'm still looking for a suitable option so your post about NASPA was really timely. Did you sign your kids up for private or group lessons? I only see the option for private lessons on their website but you mention group lessons. Do you recall the cost?
Have you been to Gala Yuzawa? How would you compare NASPA to it? I've done a day trip to Gala Yuzawa and found it to be extremely crowded (relative to Niseko at least) but I liked the range of terrain.
What I also liked about Gala Yuzawa is that it's really easy to get to, especially if you can use the JR Tokyo Wide Pass for confirmed Shinkansen seats.
I'm still looking for a suitable option so your post about NASPA was really timely. Did you sign your kids up for private or group lessons? I only see the option for private lessons on their website but you mention group lessons. Do you recall the cost?
Have you been to Gala Yuzawa? How would you compare NASPA to it? I've done a day trip to Gala Yuzawa and found it to be extremely crowded (relative to Niseko at least) but I liked the range of terrain.
What I also liked about Gala Yuzawa is that it's really easy to get to, especially if you can use the JR Tokyo Wide Pass for confirmed Shinkansen seats.
The main ski schools are NISS, NBS and GoSnow. We have used all three at various times and have had good experiences. This year we will be going back to Go Snow, in part because of their flexibility for our schedule and partly due to pricing.
Our boys have progressed up through the various kids programmes which seem well organised
Jan 22, 2018, 3:20 pm
#42
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falkirk, Scotland,VS Red, BA Gold, HH Diamond,UK Amex Plat
Programs: Master of the Privy Purse des Muccis
Posts: 17,916
You can ski in Tokyo today![/QUOTE]
Hi,
And if you could get your skis in you could ski in tokyo disneyland!
Tokyo Disneyland blanketed in snow - ABC News
and
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.WmZjU6hl-Uk
Some pretty amazing scenes ( I was there a fornight ago and had brillant sunshine for most of my week there)
Regards
TBS
Hi,
And if you could get your skis in you could ski in tokyo disneyland!
Tokyo Disneyland blanketed in snow - ABC News
and
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.WmZjU6hl-Uk
Some pretty amazing scenes ( I was there a fornight ago and had brillant sunshine for most of my week there)
Regards
TBS
Jan 23, 2018, 3:56 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falkirk, Scotland,VS Red, BA Gold, HH Diamond,UK Amex Plat
Programs: Master of the Privy Purse des Muccis
Posts: 17,916
Hi,
Another story with nice pictures and a video ( no sound and titles in Japanese only)
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.Wme7VKhl-Uk
Regards
TBS
Another story with nice pictures and a video ( no sound and titles in Japanese only)
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.Wme7VKhl-Uk
Regards
TBS
Jan 24, 2018, 7:59 am
#44
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bali
Posts: 261
If you like the Niseko area I'd recommend staying in Hirafu instead. We've been staying there annually for about 7 years. There are a few (almost) ski in / out places and the mountain access is much better than in Niseko village (though we do like the hot chocolate at the Hilton :-) )
The main ski schools are NISS, NBS and GoSnow. We have used all three at various times and have had good experiences. This year we will be going back to Go Snow, in part because of their flexibility for our schedule and partly due to pricing.
Our boys have progressed up through the various kids programmes which seem well organised
The main ski schools are NISS, NBS and GoSnow. We have used all three at various times and have had good experiences. This year we will be going back to Go Snow, in part because of their flexibility for our schedule and partly due to pricing.
Our boys have progressed up through the various kids programmes which seem well organised
Jan 24, 2018, 8:00 pm
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
I'm giving up on Hilton since I'm 90% certain I'm not driving and it is just impossible to squeeze Niseko into our itinerary with the paltry bus/train schedule.
But Kiroro is an option. Logistically, Kiroro Sheraton and Westin Rusutsu are the only skiing options for this trip. Kiroro looks like a good mountain, better than Rusutsu for beginners and intermediate. But I have no status or familiarity with SPG and so I'll have to keep my expectations very low at Sheraton and Westin. Nonetheless both are very expensive, 10,000yen more than Niseko Hilton for similar package. I've also looked into day trip to Kiroro from Otaru but, with their bus schedule, our time on the slopes will be <5hrs. Anyways, if anyone's skiied at Kiroro before, I'd like to hear about it. How's the facility (changing room, locker) for day skiers? Is it crowded on a weekday? Do you concur that Sheraton is better than Westin for blue/green skiers, that Sheraton has much better slope access than Westin?
I've also posted more hotel-specific question on the Sheraton Kiroro thread in SPG forum.
But Kiroro is an option. Logistically, Kiroro Sheraton and Westin Rusutsu are the only skiing options for this trip. Kiroro looks like a good mountain, better than Rusutsu for beginners and intermediate. But I have no status or familiarity with SPG and so I'll have to keep my expectations very low at Sheraton and Westin. Nonetheless both are very expensive, 10,000yen more than Niseko Hilton for similar package. I've also looked into day trip to Kiroro from Otaru but, with their bus schedule, our time on the slopes will be <5hrs. Anyways, if anyone's skiied at Kiroro before, I'd like to hear about it. How's the facility (changing room, locker) for day skiers? Is it crowded on a weekday? Do you concur that Sheraton is better than Westin for blue/green skiers, that Sheraton has much better slope access than Westin?
I've also posted more hotel-specific question on the Sheraton Kiroro thread in SPG forum.