Oh... so that's the reason!
I'll bear this in mind next time I'm in Tokyo, reassuring to know that there are many brilliant Japanese chefs of outstanding competence who have devoted a significant portion of their lives to perfecting authentic Chinese regional specialities. Now I understand that the current political climate is the sole reason why connoisseurs of Chinese food don't recognise their dedication and commitment.

Since a huge generalisation has been made, I couldn't help but be struck by the flipside and so wonder if the Japanese have regarded China as a cultural backwater, the original cuisines not being nearly as prestigious as the foods of other parts of the World and so not worth pursuing, either as a chef or seeking out authentic versions of it as a diner.

:confused:

OMG - A Fight About Chinese Food In Japan :)
 

And I don't want to sit 100% on the sidelines :D.

As you can probably guess - not only do I know very little about food in Japan in general - I know even less about Chinese food in Japan ;).

But - on our first trip - we dined with the son and DIL of some local friends of ours - the children live and work in Tokyo. And we had lunch together one day. At one of Iron Chef Chen Kinichi's restaurants. The choice of our friends' children - not ours. We asked them to pick a restaurant where we could treat them to lunch - and this is what they chose. Because the restaurant was 2 blocks away from their apartment and they said they liked Chinese food (husband is from the US - wife is Japanese). Even though I still have the restaurant brochure - I can't figure out which of Chef Kinichi's restaurants we dined at (he had a bunch in Tokyo then - and the brochure is in Japanese). All I recall is it was in an office building/store complex at the last stop of a subway line (I think NW of downtown Tokyo). It is certainly well away from anyone's tourist path (I got the impression Chef Kinichi was more of a local celebrity than an international celebrity in Tokyo then).

In any event - the lunch was quite something. Because the staff was basically Chinese and didn't speak much Japanese (or any English). The menu was only in Japanese and Chinese - and only the wife of our friend's son read Japanese. And she was kind of busy with their 7-8 month old son :D.

We did manage to order and get fed. IMO - the food wasn't memorable - or even very good - but it was adequate - not vile or bad. So - if I had to guess - there are probably some pretty decent Chinese restaurants in Tokyo (if you picked a random neighborhood Chinese place where I live - and I would put this restaurant in that category - it would be awful - forget about eating in Chinese restaurants where I live).

Anyway - like I said - we have no plans to dine at a Chinese restaurant on this trip (because there is so much Japanese fare to explore). But one place I have with a ??? on my list for a snack or light dinner is Gyoza Stadium. Haven't read anything recent and particularly positive about it. Should I cross it off my list (that's my current inclination)? Robyn

5khours and lobsterdog too - I forgot my glasses on the nightstand this morning and didn't want to go back in the bedroom and wake my husband up. Last time I'll do that. No wonder I drew a blank when I googled "tsunami" and "food" <smacking forehead). Thanks for getting me back on the right track. Robyn

I see you're from Germany. On our last trip to Germany - we didn't see a single camera at the 2 3 star restaurants we dined at (Vendome and Dieter Muller). Or the lesser restaurants either. Of course - that was in 2007 - and cameras are much more common now.

These restaurants are kind of formal. Perhaps there is something about the new trend of "higher end" dining at counters (obviously not new in Japan but new elsewhere) that encourages people to be casual and kind of oblivious or even rude when it comes to how they relate to the people sitting next to them. Because people from some places - including the United States - think of counter dining as a place to have a quick meal where you read your newspaper (or electronic equivalent) - talk on your cellphone - etc. - etc. - and kind of ignore the people around you. Perhaps formal is better?

Off topic - but the food we had in Germany on our last trip was ^^^. It was spargel season too (for people who don't know what spargel is - see for example http://www.germanfoods.org/consumer/...pargelzeit.cfm). What a treat :). Robyn

What about French restaurants? An old chef friend of ours - Bruno Menard - from the Ritz Carlton Buckhead (Atlanta Georgia USA) became the head chef at L'Osier - and it was widely regarded as one of the best restaurants (French or otherwise) in Tokyo until it closed. Robyn

Excellent point. If you believe that Japanese chefs are capable of producing world class versions of every cuisine in the world except Chinese, it would be worth explaining what causes this peculiar culinary handicap.

No, I think the Japanese have always recognized the strong Chinese cultural heritage they have received. That said good Chinese cuisine has existed in Japan for a long time, whereas there were very few decent European restaurants in Japan 30 years ago with the exception of a handful of very expensive French restaurants.

Well at least you didn't confuse "inu" with "uni" which an acquaintance of mine did while trying to order sushi.

L'Osier was wonderful!

People who are close to one another in some ways can still hate one another's guts. For example - there are more members of religious places in Japan than there are people. With many being both Buddhist and Shinto (the latter religion primarily of Chinese origin). Kanji is also IIRC of Chinese origin. Still - I get the impression there is no love lost between the Japanese and the Chinese (or the Koreans for that matter).

It's kind of like the middle east. There are no dietary requirements closer to Jewish Kosher than Muslim Halal - but that doesn't exactly make Jews and Muslims good buddies.

OTOH - doesn't mean that we can't enjoy the food - or have chefs in the countries we're talking about who learn to cook delicious versions of it. Good food/eats often transcend a lot of fault lines among people IMO. Robyn

Inu?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiba_Inu

If so - I'm glad I'm not dyslexic :D.

When did you dine there? Bruno Menard took over there when the chef who had been there almost forever retired in about 2005 or so. Chef Menard is now doing trendy stuff in Singapore (like high end burgers). I honestly think it is not his thing - his "highest and best use" - and his talents (he's a wonderful chef IMO) could be put to better purpose elsewhere. Robyn

Wagyu Steak in Tokyo and a few comments on Chinese Food in Japan
 

I figured I might ask this question of where I could get a good wagyu steak preferably in Tokyo? I generally have wagyu in a karubi format where diners grill it themselves over charcoal but was wondering if there are recommendations for this in Tokyo.

With regards to the discussion about Chinese food in Japan, I figured I might give some comments about it. First of all, I would have to say Chinese food are very different once it is outside of a region where there is no Chinese-majority population. That is to say the Chinese food like Chow Mein, Sweet and Sour Pork and Potstickers in N. America are not representative of Chinese food. That is probably why Chinese food in Japan has never gained any recognition because it does not offer anything new to Chinese cuisine.

Another point to note is how Chinese food has such wide varieties even in China. In the north, dumplings are common features along with lamb and other red meat. While in the south, seafood is more prominent in Chinese cuisines. Then there are the regional cuisines like Sichuan dishes which are numbingly spicy and Shanghainese dishes that have a special flavour of their own. As far as I am concerned my favourite places to have Chinese food now is in Macau and Singapore. There are also some high-end dishes in Chinese cuisine that might not be to everyone's taste, though they are popular amongst Japanese, like Sea Cucumber. Some Chinese restaurants in Singapore and HK are so popular they actually have branches in Japan so maybe if people are interested, they can try them out (eg. Crystal Jade Restaurant Group from Singapore). Another place to get really good Chinese food in Japan is perhaps in Yokohama (home to the largest Chinatown in Japan) and only 40 minutes (maybe less) train ride from Ebisu Station in Tokyo.

On the status of Chinese food in Japan, others' experiences might differ, but when I go to a business lunch or dinner with clients or counterparties in Tokyo, at least 50% of the time we end up going to a Chinese restaurant at a Japanese organizer's suggestion. There are a few high-end Chinese restaurants in the Akasaka/Nagatacho area that are known to be regular haunts of Japanese politicians. This makes perfect sense when you consider that most such places have private rooms with big round tables that can easily seat 8-10 people (with communal food and drink in the middle that people can share to add to a cooperative atmosphere).

I get the impression that most Japanese people have deep respect for Chinese history and culture, even if many of them find modern-day China to be completely repulsive.

Re Yokohama's Chinatown: nearly everyone there is from Fujian, based on what I have heard from people who would know.

Quite a few times including in the Menard era. It's due to re-open in the fall of this year, but I don't know any of the details.

Of course Japan has excellent Chinese restaurants. I have thoroughly enjoyed both casual and high-end Chinese cuisine in Japan, often with Chinese friends who have equally enjoyed the food.

If I can enjoy some of my favorite foods like Peking duck, bird's nest soup, abalone, or others, while tasting different kinds of tea (especially various types of pu'er), I am happy. I enjoy tasting new things and the pleasure of dining with friends. I don't feel the need to overanalyse the food or to compare the experience to dining in Hong Kong or elsewhere.

Thank you. At least there's one other independent thinker not swayed by the "you can only get good Chinese food in China" culinary orthodoxy.