Higher End Dining in Tokyo
 

There seem to be a fair number of us who will be in Tokyo this year and would like to explore dining in higher end restaurants. There are reportedly 100,000+ restaurants inTokyo - so it's hard to narrow things down. The Michelin Guide (which was not in print when I made my first and only trip) is perhaps one beginning point - but not an end point. I am starting this thread so people who've been to these restaurants can help those of us who haven't been to these restaurants make choices. Comment on choices we're thinking about - and perhaps add others to our lists.

My trip isn't until September. As of today - I have a preliminary (far from final) list of restaurants. My particular requirements were the restaurants had to serve lunch (lunch is usually our large meal of the day and we will have jet lag issues in Japan - we'll be having lighter fare at dinner if we can stay awake that late - I'll see how this thread goes and perhaps start another one about more casual restaurants later); they had to accept credit cards (I don't want to deal with large amounts of cash); and my husband and I don't care for red meat all that much (so there are no steak houses on this list). Another requirement is my husband can't sit at a totally traditional restaurant (on the ground) - although the tables with leg wells are ok.

We would like a variety of different kinds of Japanese cuisine for 6 lunches - with possibly 1 or 2 non-Japanese restaurants thrown into the mix.

Here's my preliminary list (restaurant type is from Michelin):

Daigo (Shojin)
Esaki (Japanese Contemporary)
Ginza Okuda (Japanese)
Hishinuma (Japanese)
Ichirin (Japanese)
Joel Robuchon (French Contemporary - open on Sunday)
Kikunoi (Japanese)
Kondo (Tempura)
Kyoraku-tei (Soba)
Les Creations de Narisawa (French Contemporary)
Raku-tei (Tempura)
Sushi Saito (Sushi)

All comments/suggestions from everyone (novice to expert) appreciated. Robyn

I do not know if 'higher end' requirement includes price too. If yes, welcome to 'The Rib' at Hotel New Otani - prices start around 30 000 yen per person.

P.S. Never went inside (I wish my income level or expense policy would allow to dine in places like that)

I like the direction this thread is heading. How about "insanely expensive Tokyo restaurants"? My star-fecking list would include:

1. Nanachome Kyoboshi
2. Aragawa
3. Inakaya

Of those three, I've only been to Inakaya, which was one of the biggest wastes of money food-wise I've ever engaged in. I highly recommend it to those trying to check names off a list.

Nanachome Kyoboshi I've heard very good things about, but the price level does tend to make my eyes water. Aragawa is probably no better than Dons de la Nature, which is more, ahem, modestly priced.

Price not important - one way or the other (we'd like to have great food - but are not in a race to see how fast we can empty our bank account ;)). I'll give you a hint about how to get better food for less money. It's called "lunch" in many places :). A fair number of restaurants on my list have lunch menus that are priced lower than dinner menus. For example - compare the lunch and dinner menus here:

http://http://www.robuchon.jp/joelrobuchon_menus-en

The lunches may have fewer courses - and perhaps some less expensive ingredients than you'll find at dinner - but my husband and I have in general had good experiences with lunch menus.

On the third hand - if you read the "fine print" above - my husband and I aren't big beef eaters. Perhaps someone who enjoys beef more than we do would like to explore the restaurant you mentioned. Robyn

Well, my reply had a little piece of sarcasm in it. :) I personally do not dine in any place if it would cost me >$25, because I do not believe that paying $250 for a food I'd get a food 10 times better than a dinner for $25.

I'll share some of my favorite restaurants in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Osaka:

Tokyo:
Tempura Mikawa
Sushi Shin (Nishi-Azabu)
Sukiyabashi Jiro
Yakitori Toriyoshi (Nishi-Azabu, Akasaka Mitsuke, Ginza, Naka-Meguro)
Kikuchi Nishi-Azabu (Kaiseki counter Kappou w/one table available)
Kasumitei Matsubara Nishi-Azabu (Kaiseki counter Kappou with private dining rooms available)

Kyoto:
Gion Nanba
Gion Suetomo

Osaka:
Sfida (Italian)

Thanks for sharing.

Tempura Mikawa and and Sushi Shin sound good.

Is Kikuchi Nishi-Azabu the same as Kikuchi at 2-17-17 Nishiazabu (that's the address in the Michelin Guide). Suspect so - but just making sure. If so - for us - that's a thumbs down because it's dinner only.

Kasumitei Matsubara isn't in Michelin and doesn't seem to have an English website. Not deal breakers for sure - but could you tell me a bit about it?

With regard to any yakitori restaurant - I try to avoid all restaurants where I can make any reasonable approximation of what a restaurant makes. I do grilled chicken on sticks all the time (mostly satay - but I could do a basic yakitori too if I cared to). I like restaurant things that I absolutely/positively couldn't/wouldn't make at home - even if the restaurant version of my home cooking is 10 times better than mine (and it usually isn't - I'm a pretty decent cook).

With regard to Sukiyabashi Jiro - especially if you're talking about the one in Ginza - well there's an old gardening saying - "wrong plant - wrong place". There's a dining corollary IMO - "wrong person - wrong restaurant". I have read enough about Jiro (saw the movie too) to know that I am absolutely the wrong person for that restaurant. For starters - I eat slowly - and get full quickly. It takes time for me to digest my food (I have some GI issues). If I were forced to get down 10-12-14 pieces of sushi quickly - I would probably have GI distress. Also - when I get kind of full (not hard when I'm faced with relatively large tasting menus in various restaurants these days) - I will only eat a part of what's on my plate. At sushi restaurants - I will leave the rice - or ask the chef if he can do sashimi instead - explaining things best I can - that it is *me* and no offense to the chef. Most chefs are pretty good about this - but considering what I've read - well this restaurant would be a disaster for me. Why ask for trouble?

Also - my husband and I use lunch to sit down and "recharge our batteries" (especially my husband's bad leg). So we like to sit down for least an hour. I am not a fan of 4-5 hour meals. But - when I think "30 Minute Meal" - the only thing that comes to mind is Rachel Ray's TV show ;). Heck - our meals at home - even lunch - take more than 30 minutes.

My last 2 comments are very personal and particular to me. Doesn't mean the restaurants aren't great. Or that they're not right for other people. Just means they're not the best restaurants for me - the ones where I would enjoy myself the most. And - contrary to what some people here think - fine dining isn't about crossing places off a list - or spending the most money possible - it's about having wonderful experiences eating food you find delicious in pleasant surroundings.

I have 2 questions if you or other people here don't mind answering. The one high end sushi restaurant we went to on our first trip was Kozasa Sushi in Ginza - which - like Sushi Shin - is supposed to serve "Edomae style" sushi. What are the differences between "Edomae style" sushi and the other kind(s)? And what are the other kinds? Which should we try (or try again)? And what are the differences we should be looking for between/among the kinds?

And - do you think using the Michelin Guide makes any sense at all in Tokyo? On our first trip - we didn't use the Michelin Guide - because it hadn't been published in Japan yet. We pretty much relied on concierge recommendations and our poking around. So - for example - one tempura restaurant we had lunch at was Ippoh (restaurant floors of Barney's New York) - we just happened to stumble into it. We thought it was really good and loved the chef. OTOH - we are certainly not experts when it comes to tempura.

I honestly find the concept of dining in Tokyo somewhat overwhelming. Because Tokyo has about as many restaurants as my county has people :D. So it's tempting to use the Michelin Guide. OTOH - it seems somewhat confining and not adventurous (I'm somewhat of a food snob and don't like going down the beaten foodie tourist path). On the third hand - we'll only be in Tokyo for 7 days - and I don't want to waste time there on mediocre meals. Robyn

Yes, Kikuchi is the restaurant listed in the Michelin guide. You will have to go to dinner if you want to try it, which I highly recommend you do.

Kasumitei Matsubara has a website: http://kasumitei-matsubara.com/ They are open for lunch, but you will have an entirely different experience if you go for dinner. If you do want to go for lunch, I would suggest having your hotel concierge make a reservation for you. You could request that they serve you a full dinner course at lunch time.


To liken Yakitori to "grilled chicken on a stick" is a gross oversimplification. The yakitori at Toriyoshi and other high-end yakitori restaurants is delicious and is perfect for when you are in the mood for a casual, authentic dinner with beer, wine, or Japanese sake. Unless you have had extensive training with a japanese yakitori chef, and somehow have access to ingredients that are not generally available in the US, there is no way that you are making anything remotely close to proper yakitori.

At any sushi restaurant it would be extremely impolite to pick apart a piece of nigiri sushi, or to leave an item half eaten. There is however, absolutely nothing wrong with telling a chef to stop serving at any time if you have had enough, or to request sashimi instead of nigiri sushi. You can also request or decline grilled items, miso soup, tea, or alcoholic beverages. At most sushi restaurants the chef will adjust the pace of the meal according to how quickly or slowly one wants to eat. Before the meal begins, you will be asked if you have any food allergies or if there are any items you do not like, and the meal will be adjusted accordingly.

I agree that going to Sukiyabashi Jiro would probably be a disaster from what you describe. There are other sushi restaurants that will better meet your needs. Shin is an excellent restaurant, and some staff speak basic english. If you do go you will enjoy it very much, but please try not to pick apart any item or to leave anything half eaten. If you must do this, make sure to apologize and to explain that you need to stop eating or switch to something else.

Good hotel sushi restaurants can be very approachable, and often have at least some staff who speak fluent english. Roku-Roku at the Grand Hyatt is a very good restaurant that will be very accommodating of any special requests. Kanesaka located at the Palace hotel within Wadakura would also be a good choice. (You might want to have kaiseki or other types of food at Wadakura as well).

Sushi Tsu in Nishi-Azabu is a good restaurant where you will not have any problems communicating as one of the chefs is fluent in English. If you go for lunch, you can order a full omakase course that is the same as what you would have for dinner. This is also a good choice if you are looking for something a bit different than classic edomae sushi http://www.sushitsu.jp/


I don't rely on the Michelin guide a lot in Japan, but for anyone without significant experience in Tokyo I think it is a very good resource to use. My advice would be to use the Michelin guide in combination with advice from you hotel concierge and from flyertalk. IIRC you will be staying at FS Marunouchi or The Peninusla, so you can definitely put the concierge to work to find restaurants for you beyond their standard recommendations for tourists.

Re tempura, definitely make a point of going to Mikawa in Monzen-Nakacho or Roppongi for a full omakase course (can be served at lunch time or dinner time for the same price).

Tokyo has a lot of restaurants, but you only need to find a handful of excellent ones to have an excellent experience.

I hope this information helps and wish you a great time here in Japan.

Cheers,

Mike

Posts that are negatively judgmental about other members and make negative characterizations have been deleted for inappropriateness.

Feel free to respectfully disagree - and remember that when posting about food and personal preferences, "De gustibus non est disputandum" (Latin for "There is no disputing of tastes") is the best rule. Please read the following Flyertalk Rule, which we all agreed to abide by in return for the privileges of membership.

JDiver
senior moderator

No Ryugin? I was more impressed by the food at Ryugin than I was at Per Se (Thomas Keller restaurant in Manhattan).

Sukiyabashi Jiro Roppongi might be more to your liking if you wish to try it versus Ginza. The son's restaurant is much more laid back and one of the chefs speaks a little English.

Ryugin is another excellent choice.

Most would also enjoy Kadowaki mentioned in other thread.

Also, why not visit a chinese restaurant? My favorite is Hei Fung Terrace at the Peninsula, because the entire Peninsula hotel group has stopped serving shark fin.

Re: Michelin - I don't think it's very accurate for Japanese cuisine. As for the western cuisines and at the risk of sounding snobbish and getting flamed, the vast majority of customers at the 3 star restaurants are on once in a decade outings and totally out of place at these restaurants. As a result the atmosphere is often very stilted. IMHO the ambiance of a restaurant is much nicer with a more sophisticated clientele who are actually able to relax and have a nice time in a formal setting.

Hei Fung Terrace? That place is atrocious. Either flavorless and/or gloppy, chintzy portions, weird "accomodations" to the Japanese palate, and outrageously expensive, to boot. Cheaper to get on a plane and fly to Hong Kong to have some proper Chinese food. Same applies for Japanese food in Hong Kong, the "high end" stuff in Hong Kong is so expensive (and not as good as the stuff in Japan) that it is probably cheaper to get on a plane and fly to Japan for the real deal.

Obviously exaggerating a little, but not by much. Tokyo does many world cuisines to different degrees of accomplishment. Chinese is one where, except for the Japanized stuff (like mabodofu at Chef Chin's, which is its own special beast), Tokyo misses the mark very widely.

I'll respond to your detailed (and thoughtful) message in parts over the next day or two.

With regard to yakitori - "sold" :). It occurred to me that we aren't making any dinner reservations at all before we leave due to probable jet lag issues. But - by day 3 or 4 - we will probably be up to having light dinners (and will be sufficiently awake too). And yakitori seems perfect for a light dinner - because one can order it by the "piece".

In your experience - is it necessary to make a reservation at Yakitori Toriyoshi (Ginza) more than a day or two in advance? (Ginza seems to be the closest location to FS Marunouchi - where we'll be staying.) If not - we can put that on a "short list" of places for light dinner. Robyn

Frankly I could not care less. I am a huge fan of the Peninsula hotels in general and enjoy their Chinese restaurants. I also do not approve of shark's fin, and appreciate how they have removed these items from their menus. Everyone has different criteria for choosing restaurants - in addition to food quality I require excellent service that is not only attentive, but warm and friendly as well. Since I value service highly and am not particularly price sensitive, Hei Fung terrace is a good choice for me.

Also, I disagree a bit about accommodations made to suit Japanese taste, as the chefs can prepare the food according to one's specifications. The ingredients used in Japan and other countries are mostly imported from China. Items like abalone and shark's fin eaten in China are often imported from Japan anyway.

Apart from their use of shark's fin, I also like Chugoku Hanten in Roppongi, as well as the group's other restaurants. So do Chinese friends of mine.