Openness etiquette - homosexuality
#1
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I'm travelling on business to India for the first time in a next week. The general etiquette guides talk about people there being open about family relationships, and welcoming open conversations about people's lives in order to understand them, e.g. "don't be surprised if you are asked why you are not married".
Now, as a gay man, in my travels to most countries I am open about my long-term relationship, and talk openly about my partner, using gender-specific pronouns. I'm sure it doesn't always go down well, but as a company we are non-discriminatory, and so I like to demonstrate that gay people can get on in our company.
However, India is so culturally different, that I'm not sure if my approach would cause too much offence, jeopardising my ability to work effectively with them. So should I just keep quiet and tell them I'm unmarried and leave it at that?
Observations from the team welcomed. If it's relevant, our office is in Gurgaon, outside Delhi.
Now, as a gay man, in my travels to most countries I am open about my long-term relationship, and talk openly about my partner, using gender-specific pronouns. I'm sure it doesn't always go down well, but as a company we are non-discriminatory, and so I like to demonstrate that gay people can get on in our company.
However, India is so culturally different, that I'm not sure if my approach would cause too much offence, jeopardising my ability to work effectively with them. So should I just keep quiet and tell them I'm unmarried and leave it at that?
Observations from the team welcomed. If it's relevant, our office is in Gurgaon, outside Delhi.
#2


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It's been a few years since I was in India, but it was quite common to see men walking with their arms around each other and women holding hands. My
Indian friends said it's just a friendship thing. Many Indians just don't understand the concept of being gay - especially if they haven't travelled to countries where it's an open lifestyle . You're right about the marriage questions - the first time my family went, our host offered to find a wife for my brother and arrange the wedding so she could go back with him! I don't know what horrified them the most: that I lived alone, was unmarried at age 25, worked and was not supported by my parents, or (gasp) that I would choose my own husband and marry for love. Indians do ask very personal questions, and can be very persistent, especially if you are in a social setting, like being invited to their home. It might be better to just say you're single. Enjoy your trip - India is a wonderful country.
Indian friends said it's just a friendship thing. Many Indians just don't understand the concept of being gay - especially if they haven't travelled to countries where it's an open lifestyle . You're right about the marriage questions - the first time my family went, our host offered to find a wife for my brother and arrange the wedding so she could go back with him! I don't know what horrified them the most: that I lived alone, was unmarried at age 25, worked and was not supported by my parents, or (gasp) that I would choose my own husband and marry for love. Indians do ask very personal questions, and can be very persistent, especially if you are in a social setting, like being invited to their home. It might be better to just say you're single. Enjoy your trip - India is a wonderful country.
#3
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There are plenty of homosexuals in India, but in popular parlance many confuse homosexuality for the eunuch/transexual/transvestite subculture that is commonly found across the Subcontinent -- especially upon births and at weddings. Indians will find mainstream homosexuality curious (and jokes will be made), but serious offense will not be taken if you respond to questions asked about that matter.
If in your situation, I would say unmarried and leave it at that. If they then ask follow-up questions, then answer as you deem fit (and don't be bothered by a liitle reaction on their part to an honest answer). It won't rock the boat enough to cause problems regardless of the answer.
Staying at the Hilton in Gurgaon?
If in your situation, I would say unmarried and leave it at that. If they then ask follow-up questions, then answer as you deem fit (and don't be bothered by a liitle reaction on their part to an honest answer). It won't rock the boat enough to cause problems regardless of the answer.
Staying at the Hilton in Gurgaon?
#4
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Originally Posted by Georgia Peach
It's been a few years since I was in India, but it was quite common to see men walking with their arms around each other and women holding hands. My
Indian friends said it's just a friendship thing. Many Indians just don't understand the concept of being gay - especially if they haven't travelled to countries where it's an open lifestyle . You're right about the marriage questions - the first time my family went, our host offered to find a wife for my brother and arrange the wedding so she could go back with him! I don't know what horrified them the most: that I lived alone, was unmarried at age 25, worked and was not supported by my parents, or (gasp) that I would choose my own husband and marry for love. Indians do ask very personal questions, and can be very persistent, especially if you are in a social setting, like being invited to their home. It might be better to just say you're single. Enjoy your trip - India is a wonderful country.
Indian friends said it's just a friendship thing. Many Indians just don't understand the concept of being gay - especially if they haven't travelled to countries where it's an open lifestyle . You're right about the marriage questions - the first time my family went, our host offered to find a wife for my brother and arrange the wedding so she could go back with him! I don't know what horrified them the most: that I lived alone, was unmarried at age 25, worked and was not supported by my parents, or (gasp) that I would choose my own husband and marry for love. Indians do ask very personal questions, and can be very persistent, especially if you are in a social setting, like being invited to their home. It might be better to just say you're single. Enjoy your trip - India is a wonderful country.
#5

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Originally Posted by dallardice
I'm travelling on business to India for the first time in a next week. The general etiquette guides talk about people there being open about family relationships, and welcoming open conversations about people's lives in order to understand them, e.g. "don't be surprised if you are asked why you are not married".
Now, as a gay man, in my travels to most countries I am open about my long-term relationship, and talk openly about my partner, using gender-specific pronouns. I'm sure it doesn't always go down well, but as a company we are non-discriminatory, and so I like to demonstrate that gay people can get on in our company.
However, India is so culturally different, that I'm not sure if my approach would cause too much offence, jeopardising my ability to work effectively with them. So should I just keep quiet and tell them I'm unmarried and leave it at that?
Observations from the team welcomed. If it's relevant, our office is in Gurgaon, outside Delhi.
Now, as a gay man, in my travels to most countries I am open about my long-term relationship, and talk openly about my partner, using gender-specific pronouns. I'm sure it doesn't always go down well, but as a company we are non-discriminatory, and so I like to demonstrate that gay people can get on in our company.
However, India is so culturally different, that I'm not sure if my approach would cause too much offence, jeopardising my ability to work effectively with them. So should I just keep quiet and tell them I'm unmarried and leave it at that?
Observations from the team welcomed. If it's relevant, our office is in Gurgaon, outside Delhi.
It is true that Indians tend to get familiar far too quickly than a typical Westerner is comfortable with. It is not uncommon for two Indian families to meet and within 30 minutes know a good deal about one-another. It is a cultural thing, and in most instances it is well-intentioned. But I can see how it could be unnerving for a Westerner.
In professional settings, especially if you are part of a multinational company, the kind of Indians you will meet and interact with is far more likely to know the nuances of behaving with a Westerner. My sense is that if you are traveling on business you should do just fine. Outside of business, there is no reason for you to be coy either (assuming you are dealing with people from your company). Otherwise, I suggest that you simply refer to you partner as "partner."
There are, of course, homosexuals in India and homosexuality in India is very ancient. It is, however, practiced discreetly. Also - do not mistake two men holding hands and walking together for gays - this is a common behaviour in India among good male friends (something, in my opinion, the West has debased by associating any open displays of affection between men with homosexuality), without any sexual overtones.
#6
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You should be fine being openly gay: indians do not apply their own moral standards on visiting westerners! They are very curious as you will be extremely exotic to them. So they will ask you about everything if you allow them.
In fact India is very popular with gay men. My mothers gay friend used to visit us regularly each winter and felt very comfortable there. As indian men are usually not exposed to sex until marriage, they don't mind experimenting, so this friend had many holiday relationships especially in beach resorts and big cities.
The tip of referring about your partner as 'partner' is a good one. Indians mix up he and she when speaking english and so the fact that your partner is male may not be noticed at all.
Altough men holding hands is common, jokes about gays or for that matter anything that is not average in india are very rough. In your case, your colleagues or others you may meet will not dare to crack jokes or make comments in front of you.
Best regards Oliver
In fact India is very popular with gay men. My mothers gay friend used to visit us regularly each winter and felt very comfortable there. As indian men are usually not exposed to sex until marriage, they don't mind experimenting, so this friend had many holiday relationships especially in beach resorts and big cities.
The tip of referring about your partner as 'partner' is a good one. Indians mix up he and she when speaking english and so the fact that your partner is male may not be noticed at all.
Altough men holding hands is common, jokes about gays or for that matter anything that is not average in india are very rough. In your case, your colleagues or others you may meet will not dare to crack jokes or make comments in front of you.
Best regards Oliver
#7


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Originally Posted by Georgia Peach
You're right about the marriage questions - the first time my family went, our host offered to find a wife for my brother and arrange the wedding so she could go back with him!
#8


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Originally Posted by Georgia Peach
I don't know what horrified them the most: that I lived alone, was unmarried at age 25, worked and was not supported by my parents, or (gasp) that I would choose my own husband and marry for love.
For the OP, an openly gay friend of mine went to Delhi with me for my cousin's wedding a couple of years ago. He had a great time. Sure he was offered "a nice Indian girl" to get married to, but it was always with a nudge and a wink.
He had a great time with all the attention, and has gone back once again since. Delhi and Gurgaon are very urban and some night life in Delhi, on particular nights of the week, is gay-centric.
#9
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Many thanks for the pointers. Will probably be fairly open at work at stick with 'not married' in more general circumstances. Looking forward to the whole experience - will be quite different to any other business trips I've been on before - starting with the weather! My hosts have said they're going to look after me and I should be heading to Agra at the weekend to see the Taj Mahal at sunrise.
No, the new Park Plaza which is apparently handy for our office and for the shopping malls.
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Staying at the Hilton in Gurgaon?
#10
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 137
sorry about not agreeing with some of the other posters, but do not discuss this with indians. I cannot emphasize this enough. even in the unlikely event that you find an indian who seems to you cool withe western ideas, you really shouldn't.
I was the head of an office of a multinational company in india for 3 years and had a large number of well educated and western oriented indians working for me, in guargaun, by the way. sexuality in india is very different from the west, and the concept of an executive that they work with, or under, being gay will confuse people. stick with not being married.
I would also suggest, and I don't know how much you have traveled in asia, that your "gadar" might not work well in India. a lot of time people in cultures that are very different might seem to exibit signs of different sexuality, this may or may not be the case, but it is very hard to tell.
the "eunich" in india is a very unusual feature - not good or bad, entirly, but very differnet from middle class life. you don't want anybody who works with you, or under you, to assosiate you with them.
on my team was actually a westerner who was gay, and after a period of time 2 of the team members, who knew him and were quite western in attitude knew about it and were fine with it, but he also wasn't in a position of authority.
good luck and enjoy your trip. make sure you eat at bukhara in the sheraton, at least once.
I was the head of an office of a multinational company in india for 3 years and had a large number of well educated and western oriented indians working for me, in guargaun, by the way. sexuality in india is very different from the west, and the concept of an executive that they work with, or under, being gay will confuse people. stick with not being married.
I would also suggest, and I don't know how much you have traveled in asia, that your "gadar" might not work well in India. a lot of time people in cultures that are very different might seem to exibit signs of different sexuality, this may or may not be the case, but it is very hard to tell.
the "eunich" in india is a very unusual feature - not good or bad, entirly, but very differnet from middle class life. you don't want anybody who works with you, or under you, to assosiate you with them.
on my team was actually a westerner who was gay, and after a period of time 2 of the team members, who knew him and were quite western in attitude knew about it and were fine with it, but he also wasn't in a position of authority.
good luck and enjoy your trip. make sure you eat at bukhara in the sheraton, at least once.
#11
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Well, I'm now back from India and had a fascinating time. I did post some thoughts on the GLBT forum (where I asked more or less the same question), but, for the benefit of readers here, this is how I get on.
I was glad I had prepared for the questions since I hadn't been in my car from the airport for more than 5 minutes before I was asked if I was married/had children/what my father and mother did/etc... Given the quality of driving in India I thought it prudent not to shock the driver...
Next time it came up was when I was being introduced to the office here (about 40 people) on Monday morning, when again, I didn't think that it would be appropriate for almost the first thing that the India team learned about me, so I hedged around having a partner (because I didn't want to lie outright) but didn't correct the questioner when 'she' was used (and felt incredibly guilty about it, the first time I've been less than honest about my sexuality for many years).
On my last night in Gurgaon I was out with my primary colleague for beers and - well, we planned dinner but somehow never got to eat. We had a good rapport and had already discussed many of the topics I had been warned were on the "do not discuss" list (politics, Pakistan, poverty...), and his forthcoming marriage, so when he asked "tell me about your personal life" I thought I would.
He went very quiet, and started asking me quite direct questions about how I knew I was gay, what my life was like, whether my church approved - more direct than I'd have expected elsewhere, but I reckoned this was a lifestyle he wasn't familiar with, and I was happy to talk to him about how I had got to where I was in my life.
He then went on to say he was very confused, and this was very difficult for him, because he was attracted to men more than women, and although he liked having a girlfriend and wanted to get married because it was the societal norm, he also didn't want to give up his "bachelor life". He reckoned most gay people in India had a somewhat "sad life" and so didn't feel that was for him, but he couldn't set aside the feelings he had when he saw nice male bodies (as he put it).
I could only talk about the choices I had made in coming out (every day,- it's not a one-time process), and how I had considered passing for straight because there was a stage I thought it would make my life easier, but then I realised that it wouldn't work, and so on. I couldn't give him advice in the way I might have tried to advise someone in a similar position in the UK, because I don't know what life is really like for gay people in India - and if he is 'borderline bisexual' then perhaps the married life is for him.
It was a strange evening as he was obviously very uncomfortable with the topic, but he welcomed the opportunity to talk about it with someone from outside his cultural norms as that gave him a chance that he doesn't normally get. I hope I can be a sounding-board if he needs to talk some more, even if it's only at the other end of a phone.
So I guess the moral of the story (if there is one) is to be honest if the situation is right, because it may not be just to your own benefit...
General stuff on India from a first-timer...
I'm glad I prepared for it, since the culture shock if I'd shown up unprepared would have been huge. The relentlessness of activity was daunting and tiring, the sheer busy-ness of everything. I found the people stimulating, and welcoming. People really appreciated when I showed an interest in India and Indian people and culture. They're fiercely proud of their country, despite its faults, and want you to understand it and respect it. I loved the food, it wasn't as fiercely spiced as I'd feared, and I stayed healthy throughout.
I saw a little of Delhi (nothing like enough), a lot of Gurgaon (actually, rather too much), and a little of Agra on a flying trip to see the Taj Mahal (everything I'd expected). I want to go back, and explore more of this fascinating country.
Oh, and Odysseus - I heard all about Bukhara, but am saving that for my next visit with my partner...
I was glad I had prepared for the questions since I hadn't been in my car from the airport for more than 5 minutes before I was asked if I was married/had children/what my father and mother did/etc... Given the quality of driving in India I thought it prudent not to shock the driver...
Next time it came up was when I was being introduced to the office here (about 40 people) on Monday morning, when again, I didn't think that it would be appropriate for almost the first thing that the India team learned about me, so I hedged around having a partner (because I didn't want to lie outright) but didn't correct the questioner when 'she' was used (and felt incredibly guilty about it, the first time I've been less than honest about my sexuality for many years).
On my last night in Gurgaon I was out with my primary colleague for beers and - well, we planned dinner but somehow never got to eat. We had a good rapport and had already discussed many of the topics I had been warned were on the "do not discuss" list (politics, Pakistan, poverty...), and his forthcoming marriage, so when he asked "tell me about your personal life" I thought I would.
He went very quiet, and started asking me quite direct questions about how I knew I was gay, what my life was like, whether my church approved - more direct than I'd have expected elsewhere, but I reckoned this was a lifestyle he wasn't familiar with, and I was happy to talk to him about how I had got to where I was in my life.
He then went on to say he was very confused, and this was very difficult for him, because he was attracted to men more than women, and although he liked having a girlfriend and wanted to get married because it was the societal norm, he also didn't want to give up his "bachelor life". He reckoned most gay people in India had a somewhat "sad life" and so didn't feel that was for him, but he couldn't set aside the feelings he had when he saw nice male bodies (as he put it).
I could only talk about the choices I had made in coming out (every day,- it's not a one-time process), and how I had considered passing for straight because there was a stage I thought it would make my life easier, but then I realised that it wouldn't work, and so on. I couldn't give him advice in the way I might have tried to advise someone in a similar position in the UK, because I don't know what life is really like for gay people in India - and if he is 'borderline bisexual' then perhaps the married life is for him.
It was a strange evening as he was obviously very uncomfortable with the topic, but he welcomed the opportunity to talk about it with someone from outside his cultural norms as that gave him a chance that he doesn't normally get. I hope I can be a sounding-board if he needs to talk some more, even if it's only at the other end of a phone.
So I guess the moral of the story (if there is one) is to be honest if the situation is right, because it may not be just to your own benefit...
General stuff on India from a first-timer...
I'm glad I prepared for it, since the culture shock if I'd shown up unprepared would have been huge. The relentlessness of activity was daunting and tiring, the sheer busy-ness of everything. I found the people stimulating, and welcoming. People really appreciated when I showed an interest in India and Indian people and culture. They're fiercely proud of their country, despite its faults, and want you to understand it and respect it. I loved the food, it wasn't as fiercely spiced as I'd feared, and I stayed healthy throughout.
I saw a little of Delhi (nothing like enough), a lot of Gurgaon (actually, rather too much), and a little of Agra on a flying trip to see the Taj Mahal (everything I'd expected). I want to go back, and explore more of this fascinating country.
Oh, and Odysseus - I heard all about Bukhara, but am saving that for my next visit with my partner...
#14


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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Besides Bukhara at the Sheraton, consider Frontier at the Ashoka Hotel and Karim's in Nizamuddin.
), loyalists swear by the original Karim's.
#15
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Originally Posted by knit-in
Frontier was closed for renovation when I was there in January. Has it reopened? Also, the original Karim is near Jama Masjid in Old Delhi. While I'm a big fan of the branch in Nizamuddin (sadly haven't been there in a while
), loyalists swear by the original Karim's.
), loyalists swear by the original Karim's.The original Karim's is better, but I just don't like the distance to/from Old Delhi.



