scnzzz

OK, from a not-frequent flyer who has some domestic economy experience on both (plus one 9W SFO-PVG-BOM RT in economy), my experience (and I'm only citing my experience) was always better on 9W (notwithstanding the short skirts on IT). The experience - i.e. checkin, boarding, (such as GAs and FAs remembering a not-so-frequent flyer by name - me), on-board service (4 FAs dropped everything to help me find my fallen glasses at night somewhere over the Pacific ) - 9W wins.

On a somewhat related note, what's the deal with the tabloid that IT passes off as an in-flight magazine?

fly747first

Guys, I don't want to be the black sheep here, but let's be objective. How can you say that 9W is more professional when IT defeats them in pretty much every category.

Of course we are entitled to have our own opinions but some of you make strong claims that cannot be justified at all. Please see the following ratings:

5-star IT
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/IT.htm

3-star 9W
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/9W.htm

scnzzz

erm, could it possibly be that posters are speaking from their own experience? Clearly many of the posters here (myself not included) are frequent travelers on both IT and 9W, both domestic and international, and perhaps have a few data points of their own? I've done a little, and chipped in my $0.02, but am mostly interested in what frequent travelers have to say based on THEIR experiences, which can add depth and color to an assessment that no poll can provide.

Polls are a decent reference source when nothing else exists - but at the end of the day, we come here to FT to hear what our peers have to say, not to have someone repeat poll results, which stand for themselves. Rather than quote the poll at at the us, tell us what you experienced, and then let the OP (or whoever is interested) look at all the data points and make their own call.

Keyser

well said scnzzz....

the strong claims are justified by our experiences with both airlines....not relying on polls that don't know what they are talking about....

most of the people here agree that 9w is better....doesn't matter what the poll says....i have come across many similar polls that are plainly wrong....the reason behind this is that most of the people voting don't really know what they are voting for....

i bet you a fair number of these people voting would not have traveled on both airlines or maybe traveled once....

you show people brand new aircrafts, tell them that you have live tv on the flights, show them menus with great options, pretty smiling hostesses wearing short skirts, a bar on their long haul flights, big movie stars endorsing the product, etc & all of a sudden you feel this airline is the best thing since sliced bread....little do these people realise that the aircrafts won't remain new forever, the live tv doesn't work half the time, the great menu items are often not available, the pretty hostesses are not well trained, (the bar thing is kind of cool but useless if you don't drink), the big movie stars will endorse anything if you pay them, etc....

just as a small experiment, i asked half a dozen people at my firm which airline they thought was better....i made it a point to only ask the people who have never flown in their life....all of them said kingfisher was better....why, you may ask????because of all the reasons i have given above....

travel a bunch of times or both airlines & you will see a difference....if you have to deal with customer service on both airlines then you will see a difference, earn elite status on both airlines & you will see a difference....in all areas jet comes out the winner....

i don't hate kingfisher, i think its a fine airline, but jet is better....& no amount of polls are going to change that fact....

fly747first

Again, common sense should tell you that a poll of a few frequent flyers here is not significant. Look at the World Airline Awards... they are based on millions of passengers worldwide and they clearly preferred IT over 9W or otherwise there is no way that Kingfisher would have ranked higher than Jet in every category. In the future, I hope that you learn how to properly quantify things.

See the following link:

"Kingfisher Airlines wins the Best Airline India/Central Asia Award at the 2010 Skytrax World Airline Awards."

http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Aw...casiaindia.htm

"Kingfisher Airlines wins the exclusive award for Airline Staff Service Excellence India/Central Asia at the 2010 Skytrax World Airline Awards."

http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Aw...xccentasia.htm

The majority of the world understands that as a 5-star airline, Kingfisher is superior to 3-star Jet Airways.

Every comment you make confirms my suspicion that you are a 9W employee. Good luck defending an airline that has fallen so drastically.

Keyser

one more thing fly747first....you do realise kingfisher is losing money big time....they are going through a big financial crises....they have had some of their planes grounded for not being able to pay for fuel....they have cancelled a number of flights....they have cancelled a number of routes....doesn't look like someone who could call themselves the number 1 airline in the country....

jet on the other hand are not going through any financial crises, they pay for fuel just fine, they have not cancelled any of their flights, they have increased their routes, they are now starting to bring back full service on even their no-frills service....looks clearly like someone who is better than the people with new planes but no money to get them in the air....

rely on polls all you want....but please explain to me why kingfisher is struggling being # 1 when jet is thriving????the above mentioned things are not opinions, they are facts....

your article claims: so many people voted for these awards....how many of these 17.9 million people do you think travelled on both kingfisher & jet a number of times to know what they were voting for????my guess would be a very very small percentage....awards & accolades are important for kingfisher....they put more effort into getting those than running a good airline....for all i know the majority of the people who voted for kingfisher were employees looking to boost their ratings....

have a poll here on ft & see what results you get....these are the people who regularly fly both airlines & know what they are talking about....not the majority of people who vote in the polls you mentioned, which are full of employees & people with no or little travel experience....

fly747first

Actually, it's even worse for 9W now. The airline lost its former 4-star rank and it is now a 3-star carrier:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/9W.htm

aviationp

Fly747First, you are a US professional, ie have had no experience on any of this. You know sometimes frequent flyers are the least knowledgable of people, I know some of my colleagues who fly maybe once a week but swear by thinking that SQ KrisFlyer is the only way to get miles whilst traveling SQ. FF don't know everything we assume, and the fact that Saad is a frequent flyer alongside a member of FlyerTalk, we can assume that he knows his things. Really you are causing an argument because you feel like it, infact this is the first time I have seen you post in the flyertalk forum of Airlines of India.

I have never traveld KingFisher, I am making that claim now, unlike you who have had no flying experience in India, but have flown Jet and Air India, and Jet was a solid airline, and anyone who I have talked to who have flown both KingFisher and Jet, they all mention one thing, Jet is just better. They prefer Jet even after having bad timings on their routes.

KingFisher can be stupid at times to be very honest with you, for a long time a TA couldn't book tickets with KingFisher, so when it came time to travel for me to Bombay, I only had SQ/KF/9W/AI as an option, because our TA couldn't book tickets on behalf of KF, thats how they were for quite some time in Singapore.

Yes for sure that KingFisher may have had livetv from day one, but sometimes frequent flyers don't care for that sort of things, and I fly frequently, my colleagues fly frequently but never have I been asked or participated in any of these rankings, I really don't know where they get their stuff from.

Check a few trip reports, and you shall see the same problems are highlighted over and over again - the service. But then again most of the people who I talk and see, they aren't flashy individuals, they want to just get their work done and their good at doing that.

Heres something else you didn't know, it's pretty common knowledge that when Jet started flying Bombay and Delhi - Singapore, SQ got worried, and went to upgrade its aircraft and everything. I talked to someone in Bombay, and Singapore, and both mentionned that Jet Airways had a huge impact on them, not so much KingFisher. They can't even get their timings correct, always playing around with the schedule. Really KingFisher may be flashy, but from the outside of it, looking at KingFishehr operations in Singapore they have alot of work to do

abhilife2001

Its natural for folks to have their own views which may differ from others..

Long discussions on this already and there will be no end..

Both good airlines, someone prefers one to the other.. someone gives more weightage to polls, someone to own experience..Here, IMHO, both have their own merits and lets lets leave it at that should we..

fly747first

E-aviation, I'm soooooo jealous! If I lived in Singapore, I would be able to fly my favorite airline, SQ, all the time. I'm originally from Spain, but since I'm based in the US, the best I can do is fly JFK-FRA on SQ and then FRA-MAD on LH.

I definitely agree with you. I don't, for one second, think that Kingfisher is the best airline out there.I regularly fly Jet Airways and Kingfisher for both domestic and long-haul segments for work reasons, and I prefer Kingfisher. Still, all the IT problems that you mentioned bother me as well, especially the timing issue... can be quite frustrating when IT makes many schedule changes to your reservations within short periods of time.

My primary point in my discussion with SAAD is that regardless of one's opinion, it is important to be objective. At the end of the day, it is a fact that Kingfisher Airlines has a rank of 5 stars while Jet Airways has a rank of 3 stars. I'm not saying that Jet doesn't have the potential to achieve great things, but it really has been decaying and clearly, this has resulted in the loss of its former 4-star rank. When Jet Airways started, they were my favorite airline after SQ, yet those times are gone, and unless Jet improves its domestic J product drastically (especially on its 737 fleet) and brings back many of the amenities it used to offer in long-haul J, I will try to avoid them as much as possible. The Jet F product used to be amazing, but it is no longer available from the US.

Naturally, it made sense for SQ to get worried about 9W. If you remember, 9W was one of the first airlines that offered true suites, i.e., seats with walls and sliding doors in first class. When 9W launched flights to Singapore, your national carrier, SQ, did not yet have any A380s and thus even its latest F product at the time didn't have doors and thus lacked the privacy and comfort of the 9W suites.

Babu

Friends,

There have been several off topic posts (which I have deleted or modified). As I think we have sufficiently debated the merits of both world class carriers, this thread will remain locked.

Let's remember that it's fine to disagree with one another as long as views are expressed in a respectful manner.

Babu
Moderator, Airlines of India