Honors status earned by spending; Is it still fair for non-US residents
Mar 11, 2015, 10:41 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ARN
Programs: EBD, HHDiamond
Posts: 52
Honors status earned by spending; Is it still fair for non-US residents
Hi all,
I assume many of you are US based, and in many ways are appreciating that the American economy is recovering. For me as an European resident is does have some 'personal' downsides:
The last 5 years I have earned and maintained Gold and Diamond level via spending. The 20 % increase to 120 000 base points a few years ago was a tough one, but I managed.
Unfortunately, the US Dollar is getting stronger vs. the Euro, which make it much harder for me, since minimum 75 % of my stays is in a non-USD currency, primarily Euro.
This week the Euro had is all time low vs. USD in the last 10 years, and I need to go back to early 2003 to have the same ratio between the Euro and the USD. Just looking a year back, you got 1.38 USD for 1 Euro, today it's around 1.05 USD! Roughly a 30 % difference!
Which again mean that compared to last year, I now need to spend what would correspond to 3600 USD extra if I only have non-USD stays!
We all know that currencies goes up and down, and some can argue that the past years have been relatively easier for non-US residents to achieve the Diamond level than for US residents. But it can't be great for any GLOBAL programme to have a 50 % span on earning requirements (In the spring in 2008, you got almost 1.6 USD for 1 Euro)
Some could also argue that from an Investor community perspective, that a US based company should not increase their risk, by compensating for USD fluctations in the HHonors program; But it would might be better for them to increase their risk, than to loose a LOYAL customer; Which will be the case for me, since it will be totally impossible for me in the future to reach the Diamond level (and I am far away on both nights and stays).
I don't have the perfect solution to this, but two options could be:
1) Base the local currency to USD convertion in HHonors on a rolling 5 years average
2) Implement thresholds for spending for different currencies e.g. USD, Euro and 1 releveant Asian currency
After all, many of the properties are still local based, i.e. they are not impacted of the currency fluctations as we as guests are...
Are I'm the only one facing this challenge?
BR,
SmokingBread
I assume many of you are US based, and in many ways are appreciating that the American economy is recovering. For me as an European resident is does have some 'personal' downsides:
The last 5 years I have earned and maintained Gold and Diamond level via spending. The 20 % increase to 120 000 base points a few years ago was a tough one, but I managed.
Unfortunately, the US Dollar is getting stronger vs. the Euro, which make it much harder for me, since minimum 75 % of my stays is in a non-USD currency, primarily Euro.
This week the Euro had is all time low vs. USD in the last 10 years, and I need to go back to early 2003 to have the same ratio between the Euro and the USD. Just looking a year back, you got 1.38 USD for 1 Euro, today it's around 1.05 USD! Roughly a 30 % difference!
Which again mean that compared to last year, I now need to spend what would correspond to 3600 USD extra if I only have non-USD stays!
We all know that currencies goes up and down, and some can argue that the past years have been relatively easier for non-US residents to achieve the Diamond level than for US residents. But it can't be great for any GLOBAL programme to have a 50 % span on earning requirements (In the spring in 2008, you got almost 1.6 USD for 1 Euro)
Some could also argue that from an Investor community perspective, that a US based company should not increase their risk, by compensating for USD fluctations in the HHonors program; But it would might be better for them to increase their risk, than to loose a LOYAL customer; Which will be the case for me, since it will be totally impossible for me in the future to reach the Diamond level (and I am far away on both nights and stays).
I don't have the perfect solution to this, but two options could be:
1) Base the local currency to USD convertion in HHonors on a rolling 5 years average
2) Implement thresholds for spending for different currencies e.g. USD, Euro and 1 releveant Asian currency
After all, many of the properties are still local based, i.e. they are not impacted of the currency fluctations as we as guests are...
Are I'm the only one facing this challenge?
BR,
SmokingBread
Mar 11, 2015, 2:44 pm
#2
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,770
Probably not likely the only one facing this problem, but also not likely to elicit much sympathy from Americans who have had to take out a second mortgage to visit Europe any time in the past decade.
Also, did you feel bad about your comparative advantage in spend-based status earning versus US-based travelers during all the years when the Euro was strong?
Also, did you feel bad about your comparative advantage in spend-based status earning versus US-based travelers during all the years when the Euro was strong?
Mar 11, 2015, 3:29 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 49
Probably not likely the only one facing this problem, but also not likely to elicit much sympathy from Americans who have had to take out a second mortgage to visit Europe any time in the past decade.
Also, did you feel bad about your comparative advantage in spend-based status earning versus US-based travelers during all the years when the Euro was strong?
Also, did you feel bad about your comparative advantage in spend-based status earning versus US-based travelers during all the years when the Euro was strong?
Could not have said it any better myself, especially point 2.
Mar 11, 2015, 3:38 pm
#4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Programs: AA, BA, Accor, Honors Diamond, IHG Diamond Elite and lots more....
Posts: 2,980
I have never come close on status via spend.
The dollar strength / weakness does not come into it.
I can't see too much sympathy from the other side of the pond
The dollar strength / weakness does not come into it.
I can't see too much sympathy from the other side of the pond
Mar 12, 2015, 3:41 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routières, PCR
Posts: 13,609
No, you are not alone!
Remember that in spite of Hilton Group's extensive international presence and its aggressive international expansion, it is essentially a US company with a frequent stay program tailored to US travelers. (I see non-sympathetic responses from North Americans have already started.) Sure, international stays count for credit and redemption, but this wasn't always so. Remember when Hilton US and Hilton UK had separate programs?
Many US members have the benefit of 'free' Gold status from their credit card use, something not GENERALLY available elsewhere. We have to qualify under the old rules or grab an occasional status upgrade offer.
I've tried to come up with a plausible idea that would allow non-North Americans a degree of fairness but failed. I guess it's like it or lump it or find another program.
Disclaimer: currently HH Gold with points that could expire and IHG Platinum with points that won't expire.
Remember that in spite of Hilton Group's extensive international presence and its aggressive international expansion, it is essentially a US company with a frequent stay program tailored to US travelers. (I see non-sympathetic responses from North Americans have already started.) Sure, international stays count for credit and redemption, but this wasn't always so. Remember when Hilton US and Hilton UK had separate programs?
Many US members have the benefit of 'free' Gold status from their credit card use, something not GENERALLY available elsewhere. We have to qualify under the old rules or grab an occasional status upgrade offer.
I've tried to come up with a plausible idea that would allow non-North Americans a degree of fairness but failed. I guess it's like it or lump it or find another program.
Disclaimer: currently HH Gold with points that could expire and IHG Platinum with points that won't expire.
Mar 12, 2015, 5:02 am
#6
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Marriott & SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Accor Plat, ex-Fairmont Plat, ex-Swissotel Eleva
Posts: 710
While as a non-US based HH Elite, I do not think it is easy and perhaps a tad unfair for us, but I believe HH makes a calculated decision to award such easy status.
Of course, this may change down the road, (maybe HHonors Credit Card only becomes a Silver), but all these decisions are driven by revenue management.
It does not stop me from patronizing Hilton because some had an easy time in getting Gold.
But I am disappointed with the Hilton Lifetime Diamond requirements to omit the award nights I earned through Hilton Points. Given I have no access Hilton credit card, all my HH points are hard earned through Hilton Stays, and when I "reap" my "rewards", I am penalized as all these award nights are not recognised in the Hilton Lifetime Diamond qualification.
I may reconsider my HHonors position because I do not wish that after 20 years of HHonors Diamond, I am still short of Lifetime Diamond, because my award nights are excluded.
Everyone does not have that many 20 years to waste. And yes, it is indeed a challenge to stay HHonors Diamond for 20 years, especially for non-US based HHonors. The reason for me to jump out of Hilton early, might just be due to this reason, and not cos there are people with easier access via US HHonors credit cards.
Of course, this may change down the road, (maybe HHonors Credit Card only becomes a Silver), but all these decisions are driven by revenue management.
It does not stop me from patronizing Hilton because some had an easy time in getting Gold.
But I am disappointed with the Hilton Lifetime Diamond requirements to omit the award nights I earned through Hilton Points. Given I have no access Hilton credit card, all my HH points are hard earned through Hilton Stays, and when I "reap" my "rewards", I am penalized as all these award nights are not recognised in the Hilton Lifetime Diamond qualification.
I may reconsider my HHonors position because I do not wish that after 20 years of HHonors Diamond, I am still short of Lifetime Diamond, because my award nights are excluded.
Everyone does not have that many 20 years to waste. And yes, it is indeed a challenge to stay HHonors Diamond for 20 years, especially for non-US based HHonors. The reason for me to jump out of Hilton early, might just be due to this reason, and not cos there are people with easier access via US HHonors credit cards.
Mar 12, 2015, 11:19 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ARN
Programs: EBD, HHDiamond
Posts: 52
Interesting to read that fellow members can be so out of compassion/sympathy just because my viewpoint is it not benefitting 'yourself'... OR is it might just a cultural thing that we in Europe also have respect for others challenges and difficulties!
Nevermind, I was browsing the Hilton's latest annual report (2013), and from page 21 in the PDF you can calculate that in the US alone there is 518,374 rooms corresponding to 77 % of their total world wide rooms, and that percentage goes up to 85 % when looking at hotel properties. (all brands and ownership type, excluding HGV).
So yes, Hilton might don't give a sh** about the situation for non-US residents, but then their aggressive growth plans (mentioned in the same report) will not be 'supported' by their most loyal customers! ...Unless it has now been become so cheap for the Americans that you will direct all your travels to Europe and support our weak economy ;-)
Thanks for pointing out, that it's primarely only the US based members that have 'Fast Track' opportunities, which only makes me wonder even more about the missing sympathy from some of the previous posts. Especially when you yourself might even haven't reach the HH level based on spending...Why do you then want to be against a revision of the spending thresholds?
As I wrote in my first post, there will always be ups and downs between the currencies, which was why one of my proposals was to base the conversion of a 5 year average; that will implement a bit more fairness into it...
Finally, I do believe that THE most important of the customers must be the ones who reach the level based on spending; In the end, as in our private household, Hilton can only pay their invoices with money...(not nights or stays)
So with that; I hope that HH would consider how to secure their loyal non-US members!
Nevermind, I was browsing the Hilton's latest annual report (2013), and from page 21 in the PDF you can calculate that in the US alone there is 518,374 rooms corresponding to 77 % of their total world wide rooms, and that percentage goes up to 85 % when looking at hotel properties. (all brands and ownership type, excluding HGV).
So yes, Hilton might don't give a sh** about the situation for non-US residents, but then their aggressive growth plans (mentioned in the same report) will not be 'supported' by their most loyal customers! ...Unless it has now been become so cheap for the Americans that you will direct all your travels to Europe and support our weak economy ;-)
Thanks for pointing out, that it's primarely only the US based members that have 'Fast Track' opportunities, which only makes me wonder even more about the missing sympathy from some of the previous posts. Especially when you yourself might even haven't reach the HH level based on spending...Why do you then want to be against a revision of the spending thresholds?
As I wrote in my first post, there will always be ups and downs between the currencies, which was why one of my proposals was to base the conversion of a 5 year average; that will implement a bit more fairness into it...
Finally, I do believe that THE most important of the customers must be the ones who reach the level based on spending; In the end, as in our private household, Hilton can only pay their invoices with money...(not nights or stays)
So with that; I hope that HH would consider how to secure their loyal non-US members!
Mar 12, 2015, 11:31 am
#9
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: A number, but no status no more
Posts: 3,049
Finally, I do believe that THE most important of the customers must be the ones who reach the level based on spending; In the end, as in our private household, Hilton can only pay their invoices with money...(not nights or stays)
So with that; I hope that HH would consider how to secure their loyal non-US members!
So with that; I hope that HH would consider how to secure their loyal non-US members!
Cheers,
GenevaFlyer
Mar 12, 2015, 12:21 pm
#10
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eastern Europe
Programs: LH SEN LT , Hilton
Posts: 187
Its an interesting post for us based in Europe.
personally the 2k increase to maintain DIA made it out of reach as my stays are self funded busines & average around 10k USD a year ( not enough ngts) inc. spend on award stays.
I have been given a DIA challenge which I will make to keep my status through this year but based on the EUR/USD exchange I may even struggle to maintain Gold for nxt year which I had not thought about till reading this post !
In general agree there is no easy solution & it is swing & roundabouts. What ever the case I will not leave Hilton as I have my regular hotels which I enjoy & fits my schedule.
personally the 2k increase to maintain DIA made it out of reach as my stays are self funded busines & average around 10k USD a year ( not enough ngts) inc. spend on award stays.
I have been given a DIA challenge which I will make to keep my status through this year but based on the EUR/USD exchange I may even struggle to maintain Gold for nxt year which I had not thought about till reading this post !
In general agree there is no easy solution & it is swing & roundabouts. What ever the case I will not leave Hilton as I have my regular hotels which I enjoy & fits my schedule.
Mar 12, 2015, 12:34 pm
#11
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: Lots, some no/low status some high status, can't be bothered to list them :-)
Posts: 1,958
I'm UK based and I just don't waste time worrying about something I have no control over. You just have to get on with it and it is swings and roundabouts over the years as far as currency fluctuations go anyway.
Mar 12, 2015, 2:23 pm
#12
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,770
I think you may be committing the common flyertalk fallacy of mistaking a for-profit company for a charitable organization.
Mar 12, 2015, 4:12 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Falkirk, Scotland,VS Red, BA Gold, HH Diamond,UK Amex Plat
Programs: Master of the Privy Purse des Muccis
Posts: 17,994
Agreed!^
I find that the US tends to be very good value for money coming from the UK that the fluctuations of the £:$ do not bother me ( if it went to £1:for $1 I would be slightly more concerned)
Regards
TBS