Dilution of Diamond Force (with points)
Jun 24, 2011, 9:05 am
#76
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,562
Dear Mr. jasonvr,
The rumor is true. We have been going through the change over to expanded rewards since April 1 and it will still be some time before all of the hotels have changed over but the Rome Cavalieri already did.
Thank you,
xxxxxxx
Diamond Lead Coordinator
Diamond Special Services
Jun 24, 2011, 10:57 am
#78
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 198
She also confirmed that if hotels have premium rooms available with points you cannot do a "force". Otherwise if it is not an extreme demand date and even if the hotel is sold out she did confirm that you can use a "force" for a reward stay. I had heard different answers from CSR's before but I don't think they were trully diamond CSR's. Now if this actually happens......that's a different story.
I'm not so sad I missed diamond by 2 nights last year (opted for an apartment vice hotel for 1 quarter). Being able to Diamond Force at the WA collection on Q3FNs is the only thing I've been missing. Since 95% of my stays have been at a single hampton inn, the benefits I get are mostly because they know me rather than published benefits.
Jun 24, 2011, 11:46 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milan
Programs: BA Gold (CCR), Cartafreccia, HH Diamond, Esselunga Fidaty Gold
Posts: 443
Diamond farce: other bad news
I called the DD a few minutes ago to book an award stay in an asian hotel.
I was lucky enough to be able to book a cat 7 reward stay for 50.000 points, but during the booking process the DD operator offered me some other options: de luxe room 88.000 points and executive for 110.000. When I told him: "the standard room is fine for me because I am diamond and I could reasonably expect a complimentary upgrade to an executive room..." I received a very strange reply: "with these new rules you will receive the room you book; no upgrades on award stays because you have the option to book better rooms on points.
I checked my reservation and no NOR1 upgrade options is available, also on my confirmation email under the Diamond benefit I had only the free internet. My previous confirmation emails had the complimentary upgrade available and the free internet.
After my stay I can confirm these rumors...
I was lucky enough to be able to book a cat 7 reward stay for 50.000 points, but during the booking process the DD operator offered me some other options: de luxe room 88.000 points and executive for 110.000. When I told him: "the standard room is fine for me because I am diamond and I could reasonably expect a complimentary upgrade to an executive room..." I received a very strange reply: "with these new rules you will receive the room you book; no upgrades on award stays because you have the option to book better rooms on points.
I checked my reservation and no NOR1 upgrade options is available, also on my confirmation email under the Diamond benefit I had only the free internet. My previous confirmation emails had the complimentary upgrade available and the free internet.
After my stay I can confirm these rumors...
Jun 24, 2011, 1:21 pm
#80
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 198
I called the DD a few minutes ago to book an award stay in an asian hotel.
I was lucky enough to be able to book a cat 7 reward stay for 50.000 points, but during the booking process the DD operator offered me some other options: de luxe room 88.000 points and executive for 110.000. When I told him: "the standard room is fine for me because I am diamond and I could reasonably expect a complimentary upgrade to an executive room..." I received a very strange reply: "with these new rules you will receive the room you book; no upgrades on award stays because you have the option to book better rooms on points.
I checked my reservation and no NOR1 upgrade options is available, also on my confirmation email under the Diamond benefit I had only the free internet. My previous confirmation emails had the complimentary upgrade available and the free internet.
After my stay I can confirm these rumors...
I was lucky enough to be able to book a cat 7 reward stay for 50.000 points, but during the booking process the DD operator offered me some other options: de luxe room 88.000 points and executive for 110.000. When I told him: "the standard room is fine for me because I am diamond and I could reasonably expect a complimentary upgrade to an executive room..." I received a very strange reply: "with these new rules you will receive the room you book; no upgrades on award stays because you have the option to book better rooms on points.
I checked my reservation and no NOR1 upgrade options is available, also on my confirmation email under the Diamond benefit I had only the free internet. My previous confirmation emails had the complimentary upgrade available and the free internet.
After my stay I can confirm these rumors...
Jun 24, 2011, 1:39 pm
#81
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milan
Programs: BA Gold (CCR), Cartafreccia, HH Diamond, Esselunga Fidaty Gold
Posts: 443
But the "no NOR1" upgrade options on my reservation and the confirmation email not reporting the upgrade among the benefit makes me worried...
Jun 24, 2011, 1:41 pm
#82
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,562
Guaranteed reservations availability, subject to the restrictions stated herein, at hotels within the Hilton Worldwide portfolio when reservations are made before midnight hotel local time, two or more days (48 hours) prior to intended arrival. RESTRICTIONS: This guarantee does not apply to a hotel when that hotel becomes overbooked on inventory by 10% or more (meaning, 110% or more of rooms are reserved). For certain hotels within the Hilton Worldwide portfolio, this guarantee does not apply when that hotel becomes overbooked on inventory by 2% or more (meaning, 102% or more of rooms are reserved). Consult with the individual hotel or click here to determine whether the 2% limitation applies.
Jun 24, 2011, 3:04 pm
#83
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: AGP
Programs: UA *G 1MM, DL GM, HH Diamond, PC Gold
Posts: 255
Well, just booked 3 nights at Hilton Budapest last week at the corporate benefit rate for Sept. I did notice there was no NOR1 upgrade link in the confirmation Email but instead a link for a "points upgrade" link, and it goes to a blank page when I click on it. Where did the NOR1 go? Do we still get a possible Exec floor upgrade if one is available?
Jun 24, 2011, 7:50 pm
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,912
As I tried to express my displeasure to DD agent, she insisted that it was all for our benefit as now we can redeem for upgraded rooms. 
I have zero paid stays at Hilton this year and it will remain zero. I'll try to burn as many points as I can. HH is indeed chasing DL in program dilution efforts.
I have zero paid stays at Hilton this year and it will remain zero. I'll try to burn as many points as I can. HH is indeed chasing DL in program dilution efforts.
Jun 25, 2011, 3:34 am
#85
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Germany
Programs: HH Diamond, TK Elite+ *G, ClubCarlson Gold, PC Platinum, SPG Gold, Accor Platinum, LH MM
Posts: 65
i booked over my last Q3NF cert. an stay in Hilton Singapore (5 days ago) and recieved an upgrade to executive top floor, beside the lounge (in this floor the rooms a much bigger than in other...).
But i made this reservation in februar.
But i made this reservation in februar.
Jun 25, 2011, 5:37 am
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,217
That's quite a disaster. Diamond is becoming less and less attractive; the only real benefit now is guaranteed lounge access even if not upgraded, and even this is being diluted by certain hotels.
Jun 25, 2011, 8:36 am
#87
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: HKG
Programs: Marriott Ambassador (Titanium Lifetime), BA Gold, Ex-Hertz 5* PC, Ex-HH Diamond, Ex-BD*G
Posts: 3,062
FYI, I just booked a night at the (now sold out) Cavalieri. Using both the online and telephone reservations I was booked into a room using a form of diamond force;
"48 GUARANTEE-POINTS"
So the systems may be in place to start to do this electronically and automatically without having to get the diamond desk involved at all?
This was after a few weeks ago not making a reservation as there were no standard rooms available, only a million point suite!
Overall I'd be sad to see diamond force going as it is the main attraction of Hiltons vs Marriotts, I know I can always get a reasonable paid rate at the Marriott and a reasonable points night at Hilton no matter what (each of the programmes fails on the opposite as Marriott tends to run out of reward rooms regularly and Hilton's paid force rates are typically far higher than you'd sensibly pay). Lets see what the public announcement, if any, says about this
As an edit, and update... my original reservation was with points, I dropped a note to the diamond desk asking if I could use a Q3FN voucher (the booking agent on the telephone wasn't able to help), and I have just used a diamond force it would appear, so, is the sky really falling down? Who knows, one of the responses from the diamond desk was somewhat cryptic, but the follow-up resulted in the force anyway....
"48 GUARANTEE-POINTS"
So the systems may be in place to start to do this electronically and automatically without having to get the diamond desk involved at all?
This was after a few weeks ago not making a reservation as there were no standard rooms available, only a million point suite!
Overall I'd be sad to see diamond force going as it is the main attraction of Hiltons vs Marriotts, I know I can always get a reasonable paid rate at the Marriott and a reasonable points night at Hilton no matter what (each of the programmes fails on the opposite as Marriott tends to run out of reward rooms regularly and Hilton's paid force rates are typically far higher than you'd sensibly pay). Lets see what the public announcement, if any, says about this
As an edit, and update... my original reservation was with points, I dropped a note to the diamond desk asking if I could use a Q3FN voucher (the booking agent on the telephone wasn't able to help), and I have just used a diamond force it would appear, so, is the sky really falling down? Who knows, one of the responses from the diamond desk was somewhat cryptic, but the follow-up resulted in the force anyway....
Originally Posted by Hilton Diamond Special Services Email #1 (My bolding)
This is one of the new circumstances with the Expanded Reward system which will allow you to book the Diamond 48 Hour Guarantee with either points or money. I am surprised that the system took out the standard 60,000 point amount; we were told that the cost in points would be greater.
Originally Posted by Hilton Diamond Special Services Email #2
Dear littlevoices,
We have confirmed you reward stay at the Rome Cavalieri for the dates of **-Jul-2011 to **-Jul-2011 for 1 room for 2 nights on a Diamond Special Arrangement via confirmation # **********. We will use the Q3FN reward certificate # ********* and a standard reward for a total of 60,000 points.
You will receive a Diamond Special Arrangement email detailing the stay momentarily. Please feel free to take the email with you at check in.
The hotel will already be aware of the Special Arrangement.
Regards,
John *******
Lead Coordinator
Diamond Special Services
We have confirmed you reward stay at the Rome Cavalieri for the dates of **-Jul-2011 to **-Jul-2011 for 1 room for 2 nights on a Diamond Special Arrangement via confirmation # **********. We will use the Q3FN reward certificate # ********* and a standard reward for a total of 60,000 points.
You will receive a Diamond Special Arrangement email detailing the stay momentarily. Please feel free to take the email with you at check in.
The hotel will already be aware of the Special Arrangement.
Regards,
John *******
Lead Coordinator
Diamond Special Services
Last edited by littlevoices; Jun 25, 2011 at 10:37 am
Jun 26, 2011, 1:33 am
#88
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,562
Just finished my mileage run which means I had time to write my angry letter back to the Diamond desk. Sorry for the length, but I wanted to get my point across. Also, the point/money comparison table should come out a lot better in the email than it did here.
I have to admit this is quite a disturbing development. Over the last few years I have noticed the slow degradation and devaluation of Diamond benefits, such as the removal of blackout dates for all HHonors members (a privilege once extended only to Diamond members), last years increase in redemption rates and hotel categories, and the increase in the overall number of "credit card Diamonds" due to the Amex Surpass card which causes increased competition for benefits even at the top membership tier.
The Diamond Special Arrangement (DSA) was the last perk reserved for Diamond members that significantly distinguished it from Gold level membership. Because hotels can arbitrarily assign non-standard room categories and the point levels associated with them (for redemption as a Premium Room Rewards), the chances that a hotel will be completely sold out (such that a DSA could actually be used) is remote (and that is assuming that the hotel does not declare and extraordinary demand period), but the chance that all "standard rooms" are sold out, leaving only Premium Rooms available, increases. If even one ridiculously priced suite is left, such as the 1,489,341 point per night Presidential Suite I recently saw at the Hilton Istanbul, then no DSA can be used. This becomes even worse when attempting to use a multi-night GLON or AXON award. If even one night of the multi-night stay is not available in a standard room but Premium Room Rewards exist, I'm assuming that a GLON/AXON award cannot be used. Over my years as Diamond I have had to use a DSA several times for desirable properties, such as the Rome Cavalieri. I have always felt great comfort that I could redeem my hard earned points as I saw fit. It was this perk alone that has recently compelled me to continue my Diamond membership and remain loyal to Hilton properties for all my business and personal travel.
With the removal of this benefit, I see very few things that differentiate Diamond from Gold:
1) 50% bonus on base points vs 25%
2) Guaranteed lounge access even if an upgrade is not received
And that's it. Number 1 only matters if there are properties that I can redeem at for a reasonable number of points (which is not what I have experienced for the limited number of properties already participating in Premium Room Rewards - see below for a recent survey of the Hilton Istanbul which is already participating). Number 2 is marginal since lounge offerings in the US (when the hotel hasn't completely eliminated their lounge) are often meager at best and a Gold will still get a free breakfast which is the main perk of the lounge in the US.
Hilton Istanbul (price and points per night based on a 4 night stay)
KING HILTON GUESTROOM $511 32,000
KING HILTON GUESTROOM PLUS $586 175,876
KING HILTON EXECUTIVE $611 183,361
KING HILTON DELUXE $611 183,361
KING HILTON EXECUTIVE PLUS $661 198,329
GARDEN SUITE $1,061 318,075
KING DUPLEX PARK SUITE $1,061 318,075
KING CORNER SUITE $1,223 366,722
KING SUITE PARK VIEW $1,385 415,369
KING SUITE WHIRLPOOL $2,085 624,924
AMBASSADOR SUITE $2,253 675,442
CITY SUITE $2,253 675,442
KING PRESIDENTIAL SUITE $4,969 1,489,341
These Premium Room rewards show the outrageous redemption rates mentioned above. An Executive room that is only $100 more per night than the standard room is over 150,000 more points per night (5.7x the number of points). The 183,361 points being requested per night for this room should be enough for a 6 night redemption at this property. And on top of it, this is the executive room category that as a Diamond member I should be getting a complimentary (space available) upgrade to. I do not know anyone who would redeem at this rates.
Compounding this is that there was NO announcement made to Diamond members of this change. Instead I had to find out from Flyertalk (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilto...-new-post.html). This only adds to an ever expanding list of negative changes to the HHonors program. In fact, I can not think of one increased benefit that has been granted solely to Diamond members in my 7 years as a Diamond. The one beneficial increased benefit I have seen is the inclusion of free internet at all properties, however this was granted to Gold members as well.
All of this makes me start to question why I should strive for any level above Gold, let alone remain a Hilton HHonors elite at all if this is the type of treatment given to the Programs top tier elites.
I would very much like to hear back from the Diamond desk and Hilton on this drastic devaluation of Diamond status and what, if any, plans you have that might make me want to continue staying at Hiltons in the future.
I have to admit this is quite a disturbing development. Over the last few years I have noticed the slow degradation and devaluation of Diamond benefits, such as the removal of blackout dates for all HHonors members (a privilege once extended only to Diamond members), last years increase in redemption rates and hotel categories, and the increase in the overall number of "credit card Diamonds" due to the Amex Surpass card which causes increased competition for benefits even at the top membership tier.
The Diamond Special Arrangement (DSA) was the last perk reserved for Diamond members that significantly distinguished it from Gold level membership. Because hotels can arbitrarily assign non-standard room categories and the point levels associated with them (for redemption as a Premium Room Rewards), the chances that a hotel will be completely sold out (such that a DSA could actually be used) is remote (and that is assuming that the hotel does not declare and extraordinary demand period), but the chance that all "standard rooms" are sold out, leaving only Premium Rooms available, increases. If even one ridiculously priced suite is left, such as the 1,489,341 point per night Presidential Suite I recently saw at the Hilton Istanbul, then no DSA can be used. This becomes even worse when attempting to use a multi-night GLON or AXON award. If even one night of the multi-night stay is not available in a standard room but Premium Room Rewards exist, I'm assuming that a GLON/AXON award cannot be used. Over my years as Diamond I have had to use a DSA several times for desirable properties, such as the Rome Cavalieri. I have always felt great comfort that I could redeem my hard earned points as I saw fit. It was this perk alone that has recently compelled me to continue my Diamond membership and remain loyal to Hilton properties for all my business and personal travel.
With the removal of this benefit, I see very few things that differentiate Diamond from Gold:
1) 50% bonus on base points vs 25%
2) Guaranteed lounge access even if an upgrade is not received
And that's it. Number 1 only matters if there are properties that I can redeem at for a reasonable number of points (which is not what I have experienced for the limited number of properties already participating in Premium Room Rewards - see below for a recent survey of the Hilton Istanbul which is already participating). Number 2 is marginal since lounge offerings in the US (when the hotel hasn't completely eliminated their lounge) are often meager at best and a Gold will still get a free breakfast which is the main perk of the lounge in the US.
Hilton Istanbul (price and points per night based on a 4 night stay)
KING HILTON GUESTROOM $511 32,000
KING HILTON GUESTROOM PLUS $586 175,876
KING HILTON EXECUTIVE $611 183,361
KING HILTON DELUXE $611 183,361
KING HILTON EXECUTIVE PLUS $661 198,329
GARDEN SUITE $1,061 318,075
KING DUPLEX PARK SUITE $1,061 318,075
KING CORNER SUITE $1,223 366,722
KING SUITE PARK VIEW $1,385 415,369
KING SUITE WHIRLPOOL $2,085 624,924
AMBASSADOR SUITE $2,253 675,442
CITY SUITE $2,253 675,442
KING PRESIDENTIAL SUITE $4,969 1,489,341
These Premium Room rewards show the outrageous redemption rates mentioned above. An Executive room that is only $100 more per night than the standard room is over 150,000 more points per night (5.7x the number of points). The 183,361 points being requested per night for this room should be enough for a 6 night redemption at this property. And on top of it, this is the executive room category that as a Diamond member I should be getting a complimentary (space available) upgrade to. I do not know anyone who would redeem at this rates.
Compounding this is that there was NO announcement made to Diamond members of this change. Instead I had to find out from Flyertalk (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilto...-new-post.html). This only adds to an ever expanding list of negative changes to the HHonors program. In fact, I can not think of one increased benefit that has been granted solely to Diamond members in my 7 years as a Diamond. The one beneficial increased benefit I have seen is the inclusion of free internet at all properties, however this was granted to Gold members as well.
All of this makes me start to question why I should strive for any level above Gold, let alone remain a Hilton HHonors elite at all if this is the type of treatment given to the Programs top tier elites.
I would very much like to hear back from the Diamond desk and Hilton on this drastic devaluation of Diamond status and what, if any, plans you have that might make me want to continue staying at Hiltons in the future.
Jun 26, 2011, 5:08 am
#89
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: AVL
Programs: Hhonors Diamond, Bonvoy LT Plat, TSA vilifier extraordinaire, Once upon a time... US Silver, AA Gold
Posts: 1,313
Nice letter. I wrote earlier in this thread that I wouldn't be enraged about this dilution until I go to book a room at the Paris ADT at a 60,000 point level and find my only option is 188,000 point redemption. Your continued pushing is making me think I might write Hilton now as well.
Jun 26, 2011, 5:18 am
#90
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Loftus Road UK
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; BA GGL; Virgin Gold; United Silver; Hilton Dia; IHG Spire; Marriott Tit; Hertz PC
Posts: 337
+1. Will be interesting to see how Hilton will now differentiate Gold & Diamond benefits in their literature going forward, assuming the changes seen above are formalised......