Dilution of Diamond Force (with points)
Jun 15, 2011, 9:07 am
#16
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If you were trying to book this room for the summer back in Feb of this year and got pushback, then I could understand the frustration.
Jun 15, 2011, 9:20 am
#17
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Seeing as it is mid-June, I personally wouldn't be surprised that an Italian (or most any European property) wouldn't be available using points during prime summer months, even with Diamond Force.
If you were trying to book this room for the summer back in Feb of this year and got pushback, then I could understand the frustration.
If you were trying to book this room for the summer back in Feb of this year and got pushback, then I could understand the frustration.
Jun 15, 2011, 9:35 am
#18
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I haven't seen enough credible evidence of a change yet to believe the sky has fallen. There is always uncertainty on the agent-lottery, likewise for the hotel-lottery.
Jun 15, 2011, 10:24 am
#19
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There is not supposed to be such thing as "not available even with Diamond force" unless this a prespecified period of extraordinary demand.
Jun 15, 2011, 11:17 am
#20
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It does have some value.
Jun 15, 2011, 11:34 am
#22
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Yes, for PAID stays (which are usually rack rate), but I thought diamond force didn't guarantee stays with points. In the past if I had to diamond force a room they had to contact the property first. Luckilly it has always worked out for me, but I didn't think you were guaranteed a room with points with the diamond force, just for paid stays.
Jun 15, 2011, 1:35 pm
#23
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London, UK
Programs: Honors Lifetime Diamond, BAEC Gold
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Jdiver's response is correct.....Hilton did change their TandC this year to also include reference to points for a standard room, as well as paid stays.
Historically, as a Diamond, we were able to call the Diamond Desk when standard rooms were sold out and request a 'diamond special request' for an award stay and they'd contact the hotel directly for us. I never had a problem getting a room at places like Dubrovnik, Cavalieri, Sorrento and Berlin for example. They'd often allocate you a better room (from available stock) for the standard number of points.
Now, as part of Hilton's new 'benefits' hotels can offer rooms above the standard level on points. This is happening in resort type hotels (eg Malta, Sorrento), but as HHonors communication showed, they want to role this 'benefit' out worldwide post summer.
Therefore, if your standard room is sold out at one of these hotels, but it offers points for higher category rooms, the Diamond Desk will no longer put in a special request, or even a force, but quote you the rates for more expensive rooms...like 130,000 for an Exec room per night at Sorrento. As these hotels seem to also include suites, for crazy limits, this effectively bars a diamond points force/ special request until that suite is sold out!
In theory it seems we could invoke this right when all rooms are sold out...but that may not always happen.
That's why I felt it's a 'dilution' as opposed to a complete stopper...it could mean that when more hotels adopt this, we can no longer 'force/ special request' a diamond points stay at the Cavaleiri, for example, when the hotel is still offering a night at 400,000 points for a suite.
The opportunity to do this was a really great benefit for me as a Diamond, but it now seems less likely, especially when more hotels offer full points payment for all levels of room (as we've seen, at crazy rates).
The real test will come when a hotel IS sold out, and we then try and 'force' a room, on points, per their T+Cs.
Historically, as a Diamond, we were able to call the Diamond Desk when standard rooms were sold out and request a 'diamond special request' for an award stay and they'd contact the hotel directly for us. I never had a problem getting a room at places like Dubrovnik, Cavalieri, Sorrento and Berlin for example. They'd often allocate you a better room (from available stock) for the standard number of points.
Now, as part of Hilton's new 'benefits' hotels can offer rooms above the standard level on points. This is happening in resort type hotels (eg Malta, Sorrento), but as HHonors communication showed, they want to role this 'benefit' out worldwide post summer.
Therefore, if your standard room is sold out at one of these hotels, but it offers points for higher category rooms, the Diamond Desk will no longer put in a special request, or even a force, but quote you the rates for more expensive rooms...like 130,000 for an Exec room per night at Sorrento. As these hotels seem to also include suites, for crazy limits, this effectively bars a diamond points force/ special request until that suite is sold out!
In theory it seems we could invoke this right when all rooms are sold out...but that may not always happen.
That's why I felt it's a 'dilution' as opposed to a complete stopper...it could mean that when more hotels adopt this, we can no longer 'force/ special request' a diamond points stay at the Cavaleiri, for example, when the hotel is still offering a night at 400,000 points for a suite.
The opportunity to do this was a really great benefit for me as a Diamond, but it now seems less likely, especially when more hotels offer full points payment for all levels of room (as we've seen, at crazy rates).
The real test will come when a hotel IS sold out, and we then try and 'force' a room, on points, per their T+Cs.
Jun 15, 2011, 2:00 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boston, MA
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Jdiver's response is correct.....Hilton did change their TandC this year to also include reference to points for a standard room, as well as paid stays.
Historically, as a Diamond, we were able to call the Diamond Desk when standard rooms were sold out and request a 'diamond special request' for an award stay and they'd contact the hotel directly for us. I never had a problem getting a room at places like Dubrovnik, Cavalieri, Sorrento and Berlin for example. They'd often allocate you a better room (from available stock) for the standard number of points.
Now, as part of Hilton's new 'benefits' hotels can offer rooms above the standard level on points. This is happening in resort type hotels (eg Malta, Sorrento), but as HHonors communication showed, they want to role this 'benefit' out worldwide post summer.
Therefore, if your standard room is sold out at one of these hotels, but it offers points for higher category rooms, the Diamond Desk will no longer put in a special request, or even a force, but quote you the rates for more expensive rooms...like 130,000 for an Exec room per night at Sorrento. As these hotels seem to also include suites, for crazy limits, this effectively bars a diamond points force/ special request until that suite is sold out!
In theory it seems we could invoke this right when all rooms are sold out...but that may not always happen.
That's why I felt it's a 'dilution' as opposed to a complete stopper...it could mean that when more hotels adopt this, we can no longer 'force/ special request' a diamond points stay at the Cavaleiri, for example, when the hotel is still offering a night at 400,000 points for a suite.
The opportunity to do this was a really great benefit for me as a Diamond, but it now seems less likely, especially when more hotels offer full points payment for all levels of room (as we've seen, at crazy rates).
The real test will come when a hotel IS sold out, and we then try and 'force' a room, on points, per their T+Cs.
Historically, as a Diamond, we were able to call the Diamond Desk when standard rooms were sold out and request a 'diamond special request' for an award stay and they'd contact the hotel directly for us. I never had a problem getting a room at places like Dubrovnik, Cavalieri, Sorrento and Berlin for example. They'd often allocate you a better room (from available stock) for the standard number of points.
Now, as part of Hilton's new 'benefits' hotels can offer rooms above the standard level on points. This is happening in resort type hotels (eg Malta, Sorrento), but as HHonors communication showed, they want to role this 'benefit' out worldwide post summer.
Therefore, if your standard room is sold out at one of these hotels, but it offers points for higher category rooms, the Diamond Desk will no longer put in a special request, or even a force, but quote you the rates for more expensive rooms...like 130,000 for an Exec room per night at Sorrento. As these hotels seem to also include suites, for crazy limits, this effectively bars a diamond points force/ special request until that suite is sold out!
In theory it seems we could invoke this right when all rooms are sold out...but that may not always happen.
That's why I felt it's a 'dilution' as opposed to a complete stopper...it could mean that when more hotels adopt this, we can no longer 'force/ special request' a diamond points stay at the Cavaleiri, for example, when the hotel is still offering a night at 400,000 points for a suite.
The opportunity to do this was a really great benefit for me as a Diamond, but it now seems less likely, especially when more hotels offer full points payment for all levels of room (as we've seen, at crazy rates).
The real test will come when a hotel IS sold out, and we then try and 'force' a room, on points, per their T+Cs.
I actually wouldn't mind paying a premium to guarantee an upgraded award rooms, but as others have noted, the rates are insane. On a paid stay, an executive room might cost just $20-$30 more than a standard room per night. Why, then, do executive award redemptions call for three times as many points as a standard room?
Jun 15, 2011, 8:33 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Platinum
Posts: 362
I think we can help each other out on this one
Here is an idea:
(1) When a FT member need to force a standard points reward, but suites are available, the person (let's call him Mike) starts a thread here to get things moving.
(2) We start booking suites at paid or points (depending on our situation) until suites are sold out at this hotel/resort.
(3) Mike now forces standard point redemption.
(4) We start cancelling our reservations.
(5) Mike goes first place in line to help the next person.
Could work well at locations where they do not have many suites.
(1) When a FT member need to force a standard points reward, but suites are available, the person (let's call him Mike) starts a thread here to get things moving.
(2) We start booking suites at paid or points (depending on our situation) until suites are sold out at this hotel/resort.
(3) Mike now forces standard point redemption.
(4) We start cancelling our reservations.
(5) Mike goes first place in line to help the next person.
Could work well at locations where they do not have many suites.
Jun 15, 2011, 8:36 pm
#26
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Posts: 689
I've been in a HH member for 3 years. Gold for the first two and Diamond for the 3rd. And the reason I pushed for diamond is diamond force. Now that this is happening I don't think I'll push for diamond any more.
Its too bad whats happening with HH. I like the properties alot but the points are starting to be meaning less.
I have 400k+ points I expect them to give me around 10 nights @ cat 7(using VIP award). Maintaining a diamond is a benefit of flexibility to try to use the Diamond special request to get booked hotels for decent points. But if whats happening is that these 400k might not get me a single room then I don't know what will happen afterwards..
Its too bad whats happening with HH. I like the properties alot but the points are starting to be meaning less.
I have 400k+ points I expect them to give me around 10 nights @ cat 7(using VIP award). Maintaining a diamond is a benefit of flexibility to try to use the Diamond special request to get booked hotels for decent points. But if whats happening is that these 400k might not get me a single room then I don't know what will happen afterwards..
Jun 16, 2011, 12:17 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
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Congratulation for your 6500th post!!!
I remember at the beginning of the last year one ot the Delta IT top manager moved to Hilton... (I don't remember exactly the details but this guy was very active here on FT on the Delta forum). Probably these are the results of his job....
I remember at the beginning of the last year one ot the Delta IT top manager moved to Hilton... (I don't remember exactly the details but this guy was very active here on FT on the Delta forum). Probably these are the results of his job....
But more seriously, DL IT moved to Hilton. Sounds like a virus spreading. Anyone who has tried to use DL.dumb knows what I mean.
Back to the topic of this tread, has anyone confirmed this? HHR? If so, it's making me SERIOUSLY consider my ever being diamond again. As if Gold/Diamond gap wasn't already small, this dilutes it big time.
The diamond force was probably the sole reason why I'm still chasing after 28 stays, otherwise it's no more diamond for me.
Jun 16, 2011, 7:38 am
#28
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Jun 16, 2011, 8:35 am
#29
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: HH Diamond, Kimpton IC, Marriott Plat, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 549
Not good at all
After threatening to take my 150+ nights a year to another hotel chain, I just confirmed with the Diamond Desk and Diamond Desk supervisors that this is INDEED TRUE.
If a higher level room is available for points and standard rooms are sold out, the Diamond Desk WILL NOT put in a Diamond Special Request after each hotel has adopted the new Premium Room Rewards program later this year.
The Diamond Desk gave me 3000 HHonors points for my time and trouble....thanks Hilton.....They did say that if they get a million complaints about this policy, that they will have to change it to keep us Diamonds happy, so start calling!
Please feel free to confirm as well.
If a higher level room is available for points and standard rooms are sold out, the Diamond Desk WILL NOT put in a Diamond Special Request after each hotel has adopted the new Premium Room Rewards program later this year.
The Diamond Desk gave me 3000 HHonors points for my time and trouble....thanks Hilton.....They did say that if they get a million complaints about this policy, that they will have to change it to keep us Diamonds happy, so start calling!
Please feel free to confirm as well.
Last edited by drewdawg199; Jun 16, 2011 at 8:44 am
Jun 16, 2011, 9:15 am
#30
Join Date: May 2001
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I just looked at my Hilton Visa and never noticed it was a signature visa (not realy even sure in all honesty what added benefits the "signature" gives).
The Hilton Am Ex has better benefits than the citi hilton visa. You get 3 points instead of 2 on general purchases, and for grocery stores and a cell service and a few other merchants you get 6 points per $ as opposed to 2 on the visa and 9 poitns on the surpass or 6 on the regular am ex at hilton as opposed to 4 on the Visa. Those points can really add up if you charge a lot in a month.
You also get the gold status after spending $20K and diamond after $40K if you have a surpass, so that benefit can be nice for people that don't have enough hotel stays in a year. Not to mention all the added benefits Am Ex gives you over visa such as car rental protection (which was used by me in the past) and the extended waranty protection, etc.
The Hilton Am Ex has better benefits than the citi hilton visa. You get 3 points instead of 2 on general purchases, and for grocery stores and a cell service and a few other merchants you get 6 points per $ as opposed to 2 on the visa and 9 poitns on the surpass or 6 on the regular am ex at hilton as opposed to 4 on the Visa. Those points can really add up if you charge a lot in a month.
You also get the gold status after spending $20K and diamond after $40K if you have a surpass, so that benefit can be nice for people that don't have enough hotel stays in a year. Not to mention all the added benefits Am Ex gives you over visa such as car rental protection (which was used by me in the past) and the extended waranty protection, etc.
Back to the Diamond force subject. This is a very lame change to Diamond force to make one spend more points if the standard room is not available. What happens if you wish to have an AXON or GLON stay via Diamond special arrangement-Diamond force?