Increased Points Required for Reward Redemption as of January 2010; New Category 7
Oct 12, 2009, 9:36 pm
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,720
Maybe you are correct -- I have not concentrated on Hilton for so long as their promotions -- when they have them, that is, -- are parsimonius to say the least, and therefore, they have fallen off the cliff where I am concerned.
If that is correct, what are the AMEX special awards called?
In addition, if correct, it could bode ill inasmuch as they are not mentioned -- or, it could mean nothing, at all.
If that is correct, what are the AMEX special awards called?
In addition, if correct, it could bode ill inasmuch as they are not mentioned -- or, it could mean nothing, at all.
Oct 12, 2009, 10:19 pm
#33
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: AA Plt 3MM; UA 1K 2 MM; MR Lifetime Plat; HH Lifetime Diamond; HH Diamond; IGH Spire Ambas; SPG Gold
Posts: 2,149
The whizz kids at Marriott Rewards did a points devaluation as the recession started about one year ago.
Surprise surprise business plummeted--not helped by loyal Marriott customers like me bolting.
So this year Marriott had to give double elite points, excess points counting towards elite status in 2012 etc. over and above the usual promotions such as Megabonus.
Now the geniuses at Hilton are trying the same.
I guess Hilton's hedge fund owners Blackstone already wrote off $22 billion of their investment recently--what's a few more billion written off in the future as Hilton's most loyal customers will seek greener pastures.
First we have the alleged criminals from Denizen. Then the brilliant managers in charge of the Diamond Desk. Now the geniuses at HHONORs. Its reassuring to know that CEO Chris Nasetta is firmly in charge....
Surprise surprise business plummeted--not helped by loyal Marriott customers like me bolting.
So this year Marriott had to give double elite points, excess points counting towards elite status in 2012 etc. over and above the usual promotions such as Megabonus.
Now the geniuses at Hilton are trying the same.
I guess Hilton's hedge fund owners Blackstone already wrote off $22 billion of their investment recently--what's a few more billion written off in the future as Hilton's most loyal customers will seek greener pastures.
First we have the alleged criminals from Denizen. Then the brilliant managers in charge of the Diamond Desk. Now the geniuses at HHONORs. Its reassuring to know that CEO Chris Nasetta is firmly in charge....
Last edited by travelexpert; Oct 13, 2009 at 11:57 am
Oct 12, 2009, 10:31 pm
#34
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,720
I will just add that Marriott just decreased the Category level of some of their Hawaiian properties, as well. Ostensibly it was to bring them in line with the new award schedule for vacation clubs that are redeemable with MR points. Be that as it may, the Marriott Waikoloa is now a Category 5 hotel -- the one within 500 feet of the Hilton, and it has the better beach, as well.
Also devalued to a Category 6 is the Marriott Wailea, and perhaps others.
Had very little of my business go to Marriot this year and none ot Hilton except an award redemption.
Hyatt and SPG are the winners IMHO. Great customer service and very good promotions. That is what the public wants from a hotel chain, and they deliver.
Also devalued to a Category 6 is the Marriott Wailea, and perhaps others.
Had very little of my business go to Marriot this year and none ot Hilton except an award redemption.
Hyatt and SPG are the winners IMHO. Great customer service and very good promotions. That is what the public wants from a hotel chain, and they deliver.
Oct 13, 2009, 12:10 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,994
For reference: Current
Code:
Hotel Category
Opportunity 1 2 3 4 5 6
Points for One
Free Night 7,500 10,000 20,000 25,000 30,000 35,000 40,000
(Standard)
Reward Code OP01 C101 C201 C301 C401 C501 C601
Oct 13, 2009, 2:58 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
Oct 13, 2009, 3:05 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
I also believe the US dollar will increase in value against the Euro this summer (2010). So, don't look too much at the dollar to see where points are headed. It is headed down further in the short term, but will do better this coming year for too many reasons to mention here.
Oct 13, 2009, 6:04 am
#38
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midwest U.S.A
Programs: Too many to list. Since the early 90's.
Posts: 1,407
You are really an optimist. US Government uses the printing press to finance the crisis (one thing Europe can't do that uncontrolled, because there is no national currency) and is in urgent need of inflation to pay back state debts and interest.The US export driven industry loves the weak dollar, the one, who suffers, is the US consumer. From a European position I long to see the Greenback at 110 or 120 again, but I more expect the Dollar to stay at 150 at the best....
Oct 13, 2009, 6:12 am
#39
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Midwest U.S.A
Programs: Too many to list. Since the early 90's.
Posts: 1,407
FP does a lot just to try to get people to come there. If categories are raised at resorts, requiring more points, it will only limit the travelers who would otherwise come there. As I stated before, Starwood tried raising the point requirements and they soon lost those resorts to Hilton.
Oct 13, 2009, 6:14 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Philippines
Programs: CebGo 5J, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Alaska 100K
Posts: 4,696
Oh man! - I finally came back to Hilton this year and registered for the promos and made Gold. Now they are going to devalue the points on me. Someone just shoot me - what was I thinking?
I gave this hotel chain another chance but its just not fair game anymore.
I gave this hotel chain another chance but its just not fair game anymore.
Oct 13, 2009, 6:22 am
#41
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
Just throwing this out there but I assume that the WA awards are also going to go up in price if they add a Cat. 7 award! A hint of this can be seen in the link the OP posted which showed the WA VIP awards costing 42.5k during the low season for Cat. A WA properties. That's more than the properties cost now at 40K! It also would not make sense for Cat. 7 awards to cost between 45-50k (an estimate) and have WA properties available at 40k during the low season.
Just food for thought...I think we will see a new Cat. 7 (which will cost b/t 45-50k per night) and an increase in the WA award costs in January. My estimate on WA properties is that the lowest (Cat. A) property will cost at least 50k during the low season and up to 60k in the high season.
Last edited by christianj; Oct 13, 2009 at 9:16 am
Oct 13, 2009, 6:28 am
#42
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Monterey, California
Programs: Affiliated with all, participate in some
Posts: 2,188
With the exception of programs that have introduced Cash & Points award offers, the one certainty in loyalty programs is your points and miles will be worth less as time goes on.
I have been planning to write about the devaluation of airline miles based on reports I have seen showing the value of a mile has decreased 40% or so from 2.5 cents to under 1.5 cents per mile in the past decade as the world is flooded with miles.
Blame credit cards and the banks.
As the points keep churning out the hotels and airlines make cash off selling miles and points. Redemption rates keep rising and the expiration policies of miles and points keep getting shorter timelines to take away what you earned from your hotel stays and credit cards if you stray from spending.
The real kicker is the practice of then selling you back the miles and points you lose from inactivity or paying to transfer miles and points to another account. The airlines and hotels get paid money two or three times for the same miles and points.
Banks and loyalty programs are in bed together and the aim is to keep you spending to earn more points and miles and then spending again to retain your points and miles. This is the marketing intent of the loyalty game.
The loyal guest who earns and burns most points through hotel activity is left behind in this credit card points churning inflationary environment.
Bottom line: Burn as you earn to reduce your chance of getting burned on the value of your loyalty.
I have been planning to write about the devaluation of airline miles based on reports I have seen showing the value of a mile has decreased 40% or so from 2.5 cents to under 1.5 cents per mile in the past decade as the world is flooded with miles.
Blame credit cards and the banks.
As the points keep churning out the hotels and airlines make cash off selling miles and points. Redemption rates keep rising and the expiration policies of miles and points keep getting shorter timelines to take away what you earned from your hotel stays and credit cards if you stray from spending.
The real kicker is the practice of then selling you back the miles and points you lose from inactivity or paying to transfer miles and points to another account. The airlines and hotels get paid money two or three times for the same miles and points.
Banks and loyalty programs are in bed together and the aim is to keep you spending to earn more points and miles and then spending again to retain your points and miles. This is the marketing intent of the loyalty game.
The loyal guest who earns and burns most points through hotel activity is left behind in this credit card points churning inflationary environment.
Bottom line: Burn as you earn to reduce your chance of getting burned on the value of your loyalty.
Last edited by satori; Oct 15, 2009 at 4:08 am
Oct 13, 2009, 6:49 am
#43
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Programs: Airline Free Agent, Fairmont Lifetime Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 3,041
Well, this is just great! I had plans to upgrade to the AMEX Surpass card but now I think I may just give up the regular AMEX card too! Just one more reason to shift my business over to Priority Club...Blackstone geniuses doing their magic once again!
Oct 13, 2009, 7:03 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
Flyinglawyer isn't aware of the fact that a hotel at 40% occupancy really doesn't care about the niceties of the Dollar/Euro parity.
Oct 13, 2009, 7:56 am
#45
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, Dia HH
Posts: 152
The only good I see of this for Hilton is that the beancounters at HH wanted to get execess points off the books. Since points are a liability on a PnL, lets jack the requirements up so that people will book vacations now and burn through their accounts quicker. Short term strategy with long term repercussions.
Sounds like its going to work in their eyes.
Sounds like its going to work in their eyes.