HA: HNL - Europe?
Feb 24, 2013, 7:07 pm
#47
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It's interesting to read the many comments from naysayers.
I think I pretty much agree that there isn't a huge market for premium travel from Europe to Hawaii. What limited premium market exists probably opts for F or C class with proper lie-flats seats on direct flights to SEA/SFO/LAX, with connections to HNL/OGG/KOA - no need to change to HA.
I think I pretty much agree that there isn't a huge market for premium travel from Europe to Hawaii. What limited premium market exists probably opts for F or C class with proper lie-flats seats on direct flights to SEA/SFO/LAX, with connections to HNL/OGG/KOA - no need to change to HA.
With respect, absolutely not.
What we have learned from Qantas and Air New Zealand and even Virgin Atlantic is that there is a huge market of self-funded leisure travellers from Europe to the Pacific, and the ones with household incomes over $100,000 are prepared to pay double the discount economy fare for a Premium Economy ticket.
They expect this to buy:
1. The recline of a North American domestic "First Class" seat, but in a narrower (18-20 inch) seat.
2. AVOD.
3. Cooked meals on any sector longer than 2 hours.
4. Baggage.
5. Unlimited free drinks.
6. Priority check-in and boarding.
Those are effectively nowadays the minimum standards for affluent but not rich European travellers to select a long-haul leisure destination.
In the case of Hawaii, it's obvious that the LHR-HNL fare levels would be:
Economy: 800 pounds / $1200 return
Premium Economy: 1600 pounds / $2400 return
Lie-flat Business Class: 3000 pounds / $4500 return.
I don't think that the Business Class demand would be for more than 1 row per flight.
Which means that Premium Economy would be the difference between success and failure.
Feb 24, 2013, 10:42 pm
#48
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I'm trying to expand on a strategy using airline history at HNL, for the folk that don't realize it, or rather too young to realize it. 
Feb 25, 2013, 4:55 pm
#50
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Yes, you are correct about that from the European origin perspective. But this thread is discussing the potential for HA to expand to Europe, while potentially connecting those services to other destinations using HNL as a hub. That discussion is different from a European airline trying to serve Hawaii as a final destination. HA has increasingly been doing expansions while looking into opportunities (so far successfully) using HNL as a stopover between other points in the Pacific Rim. Expansion into Europe is a logical strategy in their business plans, as long HA can take advantage of opportunities with connecting traffic from an HNL hub elsewhere.
I do remember HA flying to ANC about that time. I seem to remember that they had some sort of service, I thought it was charter service to Europe. Thank you for bringing forward that history.
No one said that Hawaii is a mass destination for Europeans. But repeating again, the airline history is there for HNL to have stopover service. QF had this kind of service. So did NZ, AC and CPAir, back in the day. JL had the same transpacific service using HNL as a stopover as PA.
I do remember HA flying to ANC about that time. I seem to remember that they had some sort of service, I thought it was charter service to Europe. Thank you for bringing forward that history.
No one said that Hawaii is a mass destination for Europeans. But repeating again, the airline history is there for HNL to have stopover service. QF had this kind of service. So did NZ, AC and CPAir, back in the day. JL had the same transpacific service using HNL as a stopover as PA.
Feb 26, 2013, 9:44 pm
#51
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I'll note that "the Pacific" is a lot more general than Hawaii. That rich Europeans are vacationing in Tahiti or Fiji is hardly news. Some here appear to think there's some debate about them doing so in Hawaii.
I agree with you that E+ would be a very good thing to have on such long flights. Certainly, even on the not-quite-so-long flights from Europe to cities along the west coast of North America (YVR/SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX) they're great to have.
Feb 27, 2013, 4:38 pm
#52
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(Remainder of lengthy prognostication snipped)
I'll note that "the Pacific" is a lot more general than Hawaii. That rich Europeans are vacationing in Tahiti or Fiji is hardly news. Some here appear to think there's some debate about them doing so in Hawaii.
I agree with you that E+ would be a very good thing to have on such long flights. Certainly, even on the not-quite-so-long flights from Europe to cities along the west coast of North America (YVR/SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX) they're great to have.
I'll note that "the Pacific" is a lot more general than Hawaii. That rich Europeans are vacationing in Tahiti or Fiji is hardly news. Some here appear to think there's some debate about them doing so in Hawaii.
I agree with you that E+ would be a very good thing to have on such long flights. Certainly, even on the not-quite-so-long flights from Europe to cities along the west coast of North America (YVR/SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX) they're great to have.
Feb 27, 2013, 7:00 pm
#53
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Feb 28, 2013, 8:39 pm
#54
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Feb 28, 2013, 8:50 pm
#55
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Mar 12, 2013, 10:52 am
#57
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Mar 13, 2013, 4:47 am
#58
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and does it have anything to do with speculation about HA flying n/s to/from Europe in the future?
-David
Last edited by LIH Prem; Mar 13, 2013 at 5:04 am
Mar 13, 2013, 11:32 pm
#59
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Mar 14, 2013, 7:53 am
#60
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Sorry, HNL-LAX is not lie flat.. but LAX-LHR is lie flat. That's the best solution.. HNL-LAX is only 5 hours and you shouldn't complain for having a recliner seat for a short flight.. or maybe you should?