December holiday flights still not scheduled
Jul 20, 2014, 8:44 pm
#16
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,653
Here's some additional info from the new schedule...again, mid-February data:
Cleveland, per week
7x mco
6x lga, den
4x iad, atl, tpa, fll, rsw, ord
3x dfw, rdu
2x phx
No flights to las, ttn, sea, cun, puj
St Louis
8x den
4x rsw
No flights to ttn, iad, puj, mbj, cun, hux, sfo, pdx
Here's where things really seem interesting and/or odd. The only flights offered for sale at Dulles in the mid-February weeks I checked are 4x/week to Cleveland. Every other market shows nothing for sale. Just out of curiosity to see if perhaps it was something off about the website I checked Orbitz and Expedia and I get the same results...IAD-CLE exists but none of the others.
I'm not sure what to make of what I see at Dulles. Honestly I think some of the markets might be a little challenging to fill A320's in the middle of winter. But I would think at least some Florida routes would be relatively strong candidates for winter. So I don't know if this is some sort of error or if they have chosen to suspend Dulles flying except for Cleveland from mid December onward.
Cleveland, per week
7x mco
6x lga, den
4x iad, atl, tpa, fll, rsw, ord
3x dfw, rdu
2x phx
No flights to las, ttn, sea, cun, puj
St Louis
8x den
4x rsw
No flights to ttn, iad, puj, mbj, cun, hux, sfo, pdx
Here's where things really seem interesting and/or odd. The only flights offered for sale at Dulles in the mid-February weeks I checked are 4x/week to Cleveland. Every other market shows nothing for sale. Just out of curiosity to see if perhaps it was something off about the website I checked Orbitz and Expedia and I get the same results...IAD-CLE exists but none of the others.
I'm not sure what to make of what I see at Dulles. Honestly I think some of the markets might be a little challenging to fill A320's in the middle of winter. But I would think at least some Florida routes would be relatively strong candidates for winter. So I don't know if this is some sort of error or if they have chosen to suspend Dulles flying except for Cleveland from mid December onward.
Last edited by knope2001; Jul 21, 2014 at 6:04 am
Jul 21, 2014, 7:05 am
#17
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Herndon, VA
Programs: United Mileage Plus
Posts: 13
I wonder if they are posting the holiday schedule right now. I've been trying to book IAD-FLL in late December and while the website says " now booking through March 4, 2015" I keep getting the message:
"No flights found according to your search criteria. Please try again."
no matter what dates I try.
"No flights found according to your search criteria. Please try again."
no matter what dates I try.
Jul 21, 2014, 8:52 am
#18
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,120
It'd seem odd to cut off Dulles so soon, unless it has been really underperforming. Also, it just applied for IAD-NAS and IAD-CUN.
I've wondered if the Dulles expansion was there to justify the 3x daily on DCA-DEN so that DC pax would know and book use F9 as a ULCC. But to DC pax, this was likely as exciting as a Dollar Tree opening up in Tysons Corner Mall. Has Frontier caught on with the DC region?
I'm still puzzled with TTN-CLE disappearing given the focuses on both ends. Maybe if Frontier didn't alter the schedule so much by removing the Sunday flight and then operating it as a 6:30am flight on random days, it'd do better.
It'd be nice if it got it's original modest schedule back of twice weekly on Sunday (afternoon) and Thursday. I know it's slim, but given that ACY does well with Spirit, and TTN and ILG might be dedicated for Florida and sun destinations and a few major markets like DTW MDW and ATL, I'd hope maybe CLE, PIT and DEN could open from ACY.
I've wondered if the Dulles expansion was there to justify the 3x daily on DCA-DEN so that DC pax would know and book use F9 as a ULCC. But to DC pax, this was likely as exciting as a Dollar Tree opening up in Tysons Corner Mall. Has Frontier caught on with the DC region?
I'm still puzzled with TTN-CLE disappearing given the focuses on both ends. Maybe if Frontier didn't alter the schedule so much by removing the Sunday flight and then operating it as a 6:30am flight on random days, it'd do better.
It'd be nice if it got it's original modest schedule back of twice weekly on Sunday (afternoon) and Thursday. I know it's slim, but given that ACY does well with Spirit, and TTN and ILG might be dedicated for Florida and sun destinations and a few major markets like DTW MDW and ATL, I'd hope maybe CLE, PIT and DEN could open from ACY.
Jul 21, 2014, 11:11 am
#19
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Herndon, VA
Programs: United Mileage Plus
Posts: 13
I wonder if they are posting the holiday schedule right now. I've been trying to book IAD-FLL in late December and while the website says " now booking through March 4, 2015" I keep getting the message:
"No flights found according to your search criteria. Please try again."
no matter what dates I try.
"No flights found according to your search criteria. Please try again."
no matter what dates I try.
Jul 21, 2014, 6:09 pm
#20
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,120
Jul 21, 2014, 9:59 pm
#21
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,653
It appears the Dulles flights which did not show Sunday were loaded as some later point -- I haven't had the time to do a detailed check but it seems they all are there (ORD, MSP, MEM, etc.) So no mystery -- and frankly it just didn't make sense if they were to roll into DC with a ton of markets this fall only to end nearly everything (including Florida) over the holidays and winter.
Jul 23, 2014, 2:20 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7
Well, after the long wait to see the holiday schedule loaded, I booked United from PVR-DEN on Dec. 29th. The flights leave within 5 minutes of each other.
Frontier: $537 (plus $20 for carryon)
United: $341 (includes carryon) ^
Frontier just isn't even close to being competitive on a couple other days at the end of the year as well. What do you think is going on? I'd prefer to support them over UA, but not if they are going to be an Ultra High Cost Carrier on these routes. By the way, Skyscanner did not post this lower fare today, but Matrix did. I'm really impressed with that site for finding the best up-to-date prices. If you know of other sites to use, I'd love to hear about them as well.
Frontier: $537 (plus $20 for carryon)
United: $341 (includes carryon) ^
Frontier just isn't even close to being competitive on a couple other days at the end of the year as well. What do you think is going on? I'd prefer to support them over UA, but not if they are going to be an Ultra High Cost Carrier on these routes. By the way, Skyscanner did not post this lower fare today, but Matrix did. I'm really impressed with that site for finding the best up-to-date prices. If you know of other sites to use, I'd love to hear about them as well.
Jul 23, 2014, 3:02 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: new zealand
Posts: 530
Maybe December 29 is a very high travel day?
Two days later (December 31 return January 7), I'm offered the Frontier round trip DEN-PVR at $329 and a bit less again a week later.
Then again, it's likely Frontier will always be more expensive on a third party website.
Two days later (December 31 return January 7), I'm offered the Frontier round trip DEN-PVR at $329 and a bit less again a week later.
Then again, it's likely Frontier will always be more expensive on a third party website.
Jul 24, 2014, 2:27 pm
#24
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,120
TTN and ILG oddities
It's still odd that FLL services are light from TTN (only 4x weekly during the peak season) and nonexistant from ILG. Maybe Frontier has inclination that JetBlue will launch out of PHL, like it did in PIT, so Frontier is not adding it in to prevent a future problem where close in bookings will be lights and loads light, if JetBlue adds capacity in PHL.
It's also odd that there is no TTN-CLE even just 2x weekly in the Winter like how it started. TTN-DTW however takes the role as 2x weekly as Thursday/Sunday, perhaps as DTW is larger than CLE and less driveable. Nonetheless, there is no low fare way of getting to CLE via flight, although United specials out of EWR are there sometimes (although requiring a Monday or Tuesday return). Southwest has been a little more competitive than usual on EWR-MDW-CLE. CLE pax might utilize flying Southwest into BWI as well, although Sunday traffic from BWI to NJ/PA (and vice versa) can be heavy.
Lastly, TTN-MDW-DEN and ILG-DEN deletion is also odd from the Philly region. Perhaps it plans on offering PHL-DEN directly again this time as an ULCC. There is the Frontier listing already in PHL with CUN and PUJ flights. I have a feeling it might offer this, as Virgin America is ceasing LAX and SFO services. US's nonstops are still affordable but in January to LAX seems high. Oddly enough, Southwest offers no same-plane service to LAX from PHL, so a Frontier option isn't disadvantaged against the other connection itineries to LAX, especially if nonstops are priced too high by US.
It's also odd that there is no TTN-CLE even just 2x weekly in the Winter like how it started. TTN-DTW however takes the role as 2x weekly as Thursday/Sunday, perhaps as DTW is larger than CLE and less driveable. Nonetheless, there is no low fare way of getting to CLE via flight, although United specials out of EWR are there sometimes (although requiring a Monday or Tuesday return). Southwest has been a little more competitive than usual on EWR-MDW-CLE. CLE pax might utilize flying Southwest into BWI as well, although Sunday traffic from BWI to NJ/PA (and vice versa) can be heavy.
Lastly, TTN-MDW-DEN and ILG-DEN deletion is also odd from the Philly region. Perhaps it plans on offering PHL-DEN directly again this time as an ULCC. There is the Frontier listing already in PHL with CUN and PUJ flights. I have a feeling it might offer this, as Virgin America is ceasing LAX and SFO services. US's nonstops are still affordable but in January to LAX seems high. Oddly enough, Southwest offers no same-plane service to LAX from PHL, so a Frontier option isn't disadvantaged against the other connection itineries to LAX, especially if nonstops are priced too high by US.
Last edited by rtalk25; Jul 24, 2014 at 2:34 pm
Jul 24, 2014, 3:22 pm
#25
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 532
Jul 24, 2014, 3:42 pm
#26
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: PHL
Programs: AA
Posts: 345
It's still odd that FLL services are light from TTN (only 4x weekly during the peak season) and nonexistant from ILG. Maybe Frontier has inclination that JetBlue will launch out of PHL, like it did in PIT, so Frontier is not adding it in to prevent a future problem where close in bookings will be lights and loads light, if JetBlue adds capacity in PHL.
It's also odd that there is no TTN-CLE even just 2x weekly in the Winter like how it started. TTN-DTW however takes the role as 2x weekly as Thursday/Sunday, perhaps as DTW is larger than CLE and less driveable. Nonetheless, there is no low fare way of getting to CLE via flight, although United specials out of EWR are there sometimes (although requiring a Monday or Tuesday return). Southwest has been a little more competitive than usual on EWR-MDW-CLE. CLE pax might utilize flying Southwest into BWI as well, although Sunday traffic from BWI to NJ/PA (and vice versa) can be heavy.
Lastly, TTN-MDW-DEN and ILG-DEN deletion is also odd from the Philly region. Perhaps it plans on offering PHL-DEN directly again this time as an ULCC. There is the Frontier listing already in PHL with CUN and PUJ flights. I have a feeling it might offer this, as Virgin America is ceasing LAX and SFO services. US's nonstops are still affordable but in January to LAX seems high. Oddly enough, Southwest offers no same-plane service to LAX from PHL, so a Frontier option isn't disadvantaged against the other connection itineries to LAX, especially if nonstops are priced too high by US.
It's also odd that there is no TTN-CLE even just 2x weekly in the Winter like how it started. TTN-DTW however takes the role as 2x weekly as Thursday/Sunday, perhaps as DTW is larger than CLE and less driveable. Nonetheless, there is no low fare way of getting to CLE via flight, although United specials out of EWR are there sometimes (although requiring a Monday or Tuesday return). Southwest has been a little more competitive than usual on EWR-MDW-CLE. CLE pax might utilize flying Southwest into BWI as well, although Sunday traffic from BWI to NJ/PA (and vice versa) can be heavy.
Lastly, TTN-MDW-DEN and ILG-DEN deletion is also odd from the Philly region. Perhaps it plans on offering PHL-DEN directly again this time as an ULCC. There is the Frontier listing already in PHL with CUN and PUJ flights. I have a feeling it might offer this, as Virgin America is ceasing LAX and SFO services. US's nonstops are still affordable but in January to LAX seems high. Oddly enough, Southwest offers no same-plane service to LAX from PHL, so a Frontier option isn't disadvantaged against the other connection itineries to LAX, especially if nonstops are priced too high by US.
It almost seems like there are too many cuts in the winter and not enough additional flights... is it possible Frontier is planning on servicing the aircraft? At some point, we are all expecting the IFE to be ripped out at the very least and possibly a reduction in seat pitch with more rows... winter would be the opportune time to do that.
Jul 24, 2014, 3:46 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7
Jul 24, 2014, 4:33 pm
#28
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: new zealand
Posts: 530
Maybe it's also possible that seats are already assigned on the post Christmas high travel days, through capacity purchase agreements with vacation packagers, perhaps.
Jul 24, 2014, 4:37 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2004
Location: HYI/AUS/SAT originally TTN/EWR/PHL
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards, Jetblue TrueBlue, American Advantage
Posts: 1,190
Well the same day that F9 is offering the $373 RT (Dec 31-Jan 7), United's lowest nonstop fare is $676 so its more which flight is full on certain days.
Jul 24, 2014, 8:17 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7
It may be a glitch, but the (one way) fare does drop by half the next day (December 30) and a similar pricing pattern exists for DEN-CUN, if not quite as marked, and DEN-SJD.
Maybe it's also possible that seats are already assigned on the post Christmas high travel days, through capacity purchase agreements with vacation packagers, perhaps.
Maybe it's also possible that seats are already assigned on the post Christmas high travel days, through capacity purchase agreements with vacation packagers, perhaps.
12-29, F9 is $537, UA is $342
12-30, F9 is $431, UA doesn't fly nonstop.
12-31, F9 is $537, UA is $510
But, you bring up an interesting point about the vacation providers that contract with Frontier. They may have sold out nearly all of their seats. When I went to the Apple Vacations web site, they only show flights on those days on US Airways via PHX. So, all the seats may be filled under their contract. I'm assuming they are still collaborating with Apple, but there may be others too.