Jun 27, 2018, 11:37 pm
Last edit by: Steve_Hun
Beware of codeshares!
If you decide to book a codeshare, no matter how seamless the airlines’ marketing departments make it sound, the following will apply:
Points and miles accrual:
Sometimes, a codeshare might be a good alternative pointswise.
Please note that the calculator at AY.com doesn't work for codeshare flights. You can select "Finnair Codeshare" as carrier, but it does not recognize status bonuses or ticket types (Basic/Value etc) even though you will get status bonus when crediting to AY+, and to some codeshare destinations, AY ticket types are available.
If you’re on AY flight number, you will always earn AY+ points, regardless of carrier. In the 100 % category you earn 1 point / km. In J, you earn the usual 200 % regardless of carrier. You will also earn the usual status bonus.
In some cases (seemingly in cases where the destination is served by both AY and partner metal), you may earn points according to zones.
If you’re on AY flight number and your flight is OW-operated, you will earn points/miles in all OW programmes according to said programme’s AY earning table.
If you’re on OW flight number and AY metal, you will earn AY+ points or points/miles in all OW programmes according to said programme’s earning table of your ticketed airline.
However, if you’re on *A flight number and AY metal, you will earn zero points in any programme (CA, TP). QUESTION: Is this really true? If you’re on HEL-PEK and CA flight number, will you at least earn points in the CA programme? Or in the TP programme for HEL-LIS?
Seat assignments:
Hit and miss depending on the airlines involved, the agent you talk to and other random criteria. Often, it won’t work at all, but sometimes a good agent manages to assign a seat. (At OLCI, will you be given a random seat, or is there a choice? Are many seats blocked at T-36?)
Economy Comfort on longhauls:
Not available to codeshare pax. Not for free for Platinums, and not against a charge for anyone. (Are these seats blocked at OLCI?) Sometimes, Y+ seats are sold at check-in, the gate or on the plane before departure. These are most likely available to codeshare pax. Can anyone confirm?
Pre-order meals in J:
Not available at MMB. A good agent will be able to assign a meal if you call (maybe chat, too).
Special meals (Y or J):
Works normally, however, one might need to contact CS.
Pre-order inflight sales:
Works normally.
Upgrades:
Not available on codeshare. You will need AY metal and AY flight number. The only exception would be a paid upgrade at the airport. See https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finnair-finnair-plus/1842907-big-upgrade-thread-all-you-need-know-about-ay-upgrades.html for details.
OLCI:
Used to be problematic but this is mostly solved. You can OLCI at AY.com for AY-operated flights regardless of the flight number. The AY system recognizes all sorts of booking references and you may enter eg. your AA record locator on the AY check-in page.
What about AY flight numbers on other carriers? Do all carriers allow OLCI and recognize the AY/Amadeus booking ref?
Lounge access:
If you’re on OW metal and OW flight number, no problems. You may enter based on OW status or J ticket.
If you’re on AY flight number but non-OW metal, or if you’re on non-OW flight number and AY metal, you may or may not have lounge access. A list would be great.
- French domestic flights operated by AF, with AY flight number, will gain lounge access at CDG (what about other French airports?)
Schedule changes:
When the operating carrier makes a schedule change or cancellation, the ticketing carrier should be the one that you deal with. But this is not always the case, and airlines seem to accuse one another, and sometimes no one takes responsibility if the alternative you are presented with is not satisfactory.
IRROPS:
No experience. For last minute IRROPS, the operating carrier shuld be responsible.
If you decide to book a codeshare, no matter how seamless the airlines’ marketing departments make it sound, the following will apply:
Points and miles accrual:
Sometimes, a codeshare might be a good alternative pointswise.
Please note that the calculator at AY.com doesn't work for codeshare flights. You can select "Finnair Codeshare" as carrier, but it does not recognize status bonuses or ticket types (Basic/Value etc) even though you will get status bonus when crediting to AY+, and to some codeshare destinations, AY ticket types are available.
If you’re on AY flight number, you will always earn AY+ points, regardless of carrier. In the 100 % category you earn 1 point / km. In J, you earn the usual 200 % regardless of carrier. You will also earn the usual status bonus.
In some cases (seemingly in cases where the destination is served by both AY and partner metal), you may earn points according to zones.
If you’re on AY flight number and your flight is OW-operated, you will earn points/miles in all OW programmes according to said programme’s AY earning table.
If you’re on OW flight number and AY metal, you will earn AY+ points or points/miles in all OW programmes according to said programme’s earning table of your ticketed airline.
However, if you’re on *A flight number and AY metal, you will earn zero points in any programme (CA, TP). QUESTION: Is this really true? If you’re on HEL-PEK and CA flight number, will you at least earn points in the CA programme? Or in the TP programme for HEL-LIS?
Seat assignments:
Hit and miss depending on the airlines involved, the agent you talk to and other random criteria. Often, it won’t work at all, but sometimes a good agent manages to assign a seat. (At OLCI, will you be given a random seat, or is there a choice? Are many seats blocked at T-36?)
Economy Comfort on longhauls:
Not available to codeshare pax. Not for free for Platinums, and not against a charge for anyone. (Are these seats blocked at OLCI?) Sometimes, Y+ seats are sold at check-in, the gate or on the plane before departure. These are most likely available to codeshare pax. Can anyone confirm?
Pre-order meals in J:
Not available at MMB. A good agent will be able to assign a meal if you call (maybe chat, too).
Special meals (Y or J):
Works normally, however, one might need to contact CS.
Pre-order inflight sales:
Works normally.
Upgrades:
Not available on codeshare. You will need AY metal and AY flight number. The only exception would be a paid upgrade at the airport. See https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finnair-finnair-plus/1842907-big-upgrade-thread-all-you-need-know-about-ay-upgrades.html for details.
OLCI:
Used to be problematic but this is mostly solved. You can OLCI at AY.com for AY-operated flights regardless of the flight number. The AY system recognizes all sorts of booking references and you may enter eg. your AA record locator on the AY check-in page.
What about AY flight numbers on other carriers? Do all carriers allow OLCI and recognize the AY/Amadeus booking ref?
Lounge access:
If you’re on OW metal and OW flight number, no problems. You may enter based on OW status or J ticket.
If you’re on AY flight number but non-OW metal, or if you’re on non-OW flight number and AY metal, you may or may not have lounge access. A list would be great.
- French domestic flights operated by AF, with AY flight number, will gain lounge access at CDG (what about other French airports?)
Schedule changes:
When the operating carrier makes a schedule change or cancellation, the ticketing carrier should be the one that you deal with. But this is not always the case, and airlines seem to accuse one another, and sometimes no one takes responsibility if the alternative you are presented with is not satisfactory.
IRROPS:
No experience. For last minute IRROPS, the operating carrier shuld be responsible.
Current disadvantages on code share flights
Oct 29, 2014, 1:15 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,737
Current disadvantages on code share flights
As a rule of thumb, I have avoided codeshares because they always seem to bring loads of practical problems. Sometimes it requires a little creativity to be able to book, say, HEL-LHR-DFW so that HEL-LHR carries the AY flight number and LHR-DFW the AA one.
Since I haven't flown codeshares for a long time, I thought it might be a good idea to make an update – what disadvantages remain and what have, hopefully, vanished.
Upgrades: not available on codeshare, only AY metal and AY flight number
Seat assignments: used to be problematic. Does it work now? If I fly AY metal with, say, AA flight number, will I be able to pick a seat online? Which site? What about the other way around, say BA metal with AY flight number? And what about the new Economy Comfort? Available if you have a JL flight number?
OLCI: used to be problematic but I believe this is mostly solved and you can OLCI even if you have a codeshare. But what about seat changes? Possible or not?
Pre-order meals: I've never tried. Do they work? If I fly HEL-JFK with IB flight number and AY metal, can I preorder my J meal?
Pre-order inflight sales: No experience. I would assume it works, though.
Irrops: when the operating carrier makes a schedule change or cancellation, the ticketing carrier should be the one that you deal with. But this is not always the case, and airlines seem to accuse each other. Any improvements here?
Anything that I have forgotten?
Since I haven't flown codeshares for a long time, I thought it might be a good idea to make an update – what disadvantages remain and what have, hopefully, vanished.
Upgrades: not available on codeshare, only AY metal and AY flight number
Seat assignments: used to be problematic. Does it work now? If I fly AY metal with, say, AA flight number, will I be able to pick a seat online? Which site? What about the other way around, say BA metal with AY flight number? And what about the new Economy Comfort? Available if you have a JL flight number?
OLCI: used to be problematic but I believe this is mostly solved and you can OLCI even if you have a codeshare. But what about seat changes? Possible or not?
Pre-order meals: I've never tried. Do they work? If I fly HEL-JFK with IB flight number and AY metal, can I preorder my J meal?
Pre-order inflight sales: No experience. I would assume it works, though.
Irrops: when the operating carrier makes a schedule change or cancellation, the ticketing carrier should be the one that you deal with. But this is not always the case, and airlines seem to accuse each other. Any improvements here?
Anything that I have forgotten?
Oct 29, 2014, 5:04 am
#2
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Platinum
Posts: 422
I'm now waiting for AF's reply for the reclaim. Handling it seems to be quite slow since it's already taken over a month. Maybe it's because of the AF pilot strike.
Oct 29, 2014, 12:07 pm
#3
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,167
One serious advantage.
Earning points: Earns like any AY flight. That means you can earn twice as much on a codeshare than on bare metal. For instance, AY5841 HKG-SYD op by CX earns me 18430 AY+ points compared to the 9215 if it says CX on the ticket.
Earning points: Earns like any AY flight. That means you can earn twice as much on a codeshare than on bare metal. For instance, AY5841 HKG-SYD op by CX earns me 18430 AY+ points compared to the 9215 if it says CX on the ticket.
Oct 29, 2014, 3:41 pm
#4
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,267
Wishes from onboard AY81 at the gate...I feel for those HKG bound pax who are most likely waiting for their dep. 0800 tomorrow morning at the nearby hotel(s)..they should have been on this particular airframe, as we speak, bound to HKG..
Oct 30, 2014, 12:17 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,783
Oct 30, 2014, 1:51 am
#6
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,167
I realised I've misread your post, you were only asking for disadvantages (or the lack there of)!
With the creation of the different joint ventures, this one has gotten even stranger.
The principle still is the same, but suddenly there are more codeshares and AY is more aggresively pushing tickets on non-AY-metal, adding confusion for it's memberbase.
Sadly, the JVs only covers revenue sharing and ticket sales. In my fantasy world, they should have included FF-stuff in the deal. AY+ members should have been able to do upgrades on all JV-routes, earn points according to AY table et.c. If they did that, then it truly would have been positive for us customers.
With the creation of the different joint ventures, this one has gotten even stranger.
Sadly, the JVs only covers revenue sharing and ticket sales. In my fantasy world, they should have included FF-stuff in the deal. AY+ members should have been able to do upgrades on all JV-routes, earn points according to AY table et.c. If they did that, then it truly would have been positive for us customers.
Oct 30, 2014, 2:08 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,737
I think we can freely discuss both advantages and disadvantages here.
I hadn't really thought of the miles/point accrual thing since I seldom fly to Asia. To America, you earn the same number of AA miles on AA, AY and BA anyway, and that's where my miles go, so it's not an issue for me. But an important advantage for many, nevertheless.
Seat assignment is what interests me most. If I am booked on AY ticket but BA/AA/IB/JL/xx metal, how and where do I book my seats? And vice versa, if AY metal but AA/BA/xx ticket, how do I get a seat? And what about the costs, operating carrier's price list and policies?
I hadn't really thought of the miles/point accrual thing since I seldom fly to Asia. To America, you earn the same number of AA miles on AA, AY and BA anyway, and that's where my miles go, so it's not an issue for me. But an important advantage for many, nevertheless.
Seat assignment is what interests me most. If I am booked on AY ticket but BA/AA/IB/JL/xx metal, how and where do I book my seats? And vice versa, if AY metal but AA/BA/xx ticket, how do I get a seat? And what about the costs, operating carrier's price list and policies?
Oct 30, 2014, 3:05 am
#8
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,167
Nov 20, 2014, 12:25 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,591
This discussion is interesting. Oneworld is certainly better in codeshare aspect, whereas I (as many others too I suppose) have learnt the tough lessons on *A when codeshare and particularly when things go wrong...
However, there are two things that I don't get:
I can read in many threads people lookings especially for codeshares, I don't get that. I understand you may earn more AY points than on ticketing on operating carrier, but you will earn same points on AY anyway. And then, I see almost always the codeshared flights much more expensive (whY)? Perhaps J tix are cheaper with codeshare and then you don't need to care about inability to upgrade etc. What do I miss here?
Second q: Many times OTA tix are cheaper and often include codeshared flights. Usually I try to avoid OTA and especially codeshare due to IRROPS handling etc., especially when combining OTA AND codeshare, it will be a mess. Is it wise to continue that road or too much worry, has something changed there?
However, there are two things that I don't get:
I can read in many threads people lookings especially for codeshares, I don't get that. I understand you may earn more AY points than on ticketing on operating carrier, but you will earn same points on AY anyway. And then, I see almost always the codeshared flights much more expensive (whY)? Perhaps J tix are cheaper with codeshare and then you don't need to care about inability to upgrade etc. What do I miss here?
Second q: Many times OTA tix are cheaper and often include codeshared flights. Usually I try to avoid OTA and especially codeshare due to IRROPS handling etc., especially when combining OTA AND codeshare, it will be a mess. Is it wise to continue that road or too much worry, has something changed there?
Nov 20, 2014, 2:30 pm
#10
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,167
The answers probably differ depending on situation, but for me (flying J and having AY+ as main program) I look for codeshares only on routes where no AY flights are present. Like you said, this is due to earnings since a codeshare will earn twice as much (250%) as a OW partner coded flight (125%)
On routes where there are AY flights, I normally stay away from codeshares as I can't redeem on non-AY-metal. If a codeshare is cheaper and/or better, like on HEL-NRT (AY5811 = JL B788), I'd go for that. But then again, it is not the codeshare itself I'm looking for.
For someone flying Y and/or not crediting to AY+ I guess it can be the opposite.
As for OTAs, I have previously avoided them, but with AY's renewed price policy, I have changed my mind. I'm not paying a 10% premium for the delights of using AY webpages. Besides, OTAs offers connections AY won't sell at all. I may come to regret this during irrop, but then again AY hasn't been very good either.
Also, Expedia told me they are only an intermediary for Finnair. They called themselves "a frontend" or something like that, indicating that they are not actually involved. And infact, they don't even charge my creditcard - Finnair does.
On routes where there are AY flights, I normally stay away from codeshares as I can't redeem on non-AY-metal. If a codeshare is cheaper and/or better, like on HEL-NRT (AY5811 = JL B788), I'd go for that. But then again, it is not the codeshare itself I'm looking for.
For someone flying Y and/or not crediting to AY+ I guess it can be the opposite.
As for OTAs, I have previously avoided them, but with AY's renewed price policy, I have changed my mind. I'm not paying a 10% premium for the delights of using AY webpages. Besides, OTAs offers connections AY won't sell at all. I may come to regret this during irrop, but then again AY hasn't been very good either.
Also, Expedia told me they are only an intermediary for Finnair. They called themselves "a frontend" or something like that, indicating that they are not actually involved. And infact, they don't even charge my creditcard - Finnair does.
Nov 20, 2014, 3:25 pm
#11
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Helsinki
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 1,014
Booking codeshares makes sense in some cases. Often both AY and US marketed AY operated flights to JFK cost the same. Those of us booking US coded discount economy tickets earn 100% Avios (also tier points)/AY Plus points while those booking AY coded discount tickets earn only 25-50% AY points or 25% Avios.
For non-status customers it probably makes much more sense to book codeshares as they can't book seats for free etc.
Of course with *A it makes much more sense to avoid codeshares because of the point lottery...
For non-status customers it probably makes much more sense to book codeshares as they can't book seats for free etc.
Of course with *A it makes much more sense to avoid codeshares because of the point lottery...
Nov 20, 2014, 11:21 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,591
[QUOTE=miikkak;23873336] Those of us booking US coded discount economy tickets earn 100% Avios (also tier points)/AY Plus points while those booking AY coded discount tickets earn only 25-50% AY points or 25% Avios.
QUOTE]
This, if I got it right: Assuming US/AY prices about same, IF I book on US, the discount Y ticket earns me 100% AY points (my FFP) even if AY is carrier, whereas on booking the same on AY I may end up with 25/50%? I never thought about that trick. But then I guess I will not be able to upgrade Y->J with AY voucher/points if ticket is US even though carrier AY AFAIK.
Thanks!
QUOTE]
This, if I got it right: Assuming US/AY prices about same, IF I book on US, the discount Y ticket earns me 100% AY points (my FFP) even if AY is carrier, whereas on booking the same on AY I may end up with 25/50%? I never thought about that trick. But then I guess I will not be able to upgrade Y->J with AY voucher/points if ticket is US even though carrier AY AFAIK.
Thanks!
Nov 21, 2014, 1:20 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,104
Nov 21, 2014, 1:25 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,104
Nov 21, 2014, 1:53 am
#15
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,167
When buying AY ticket on expedia, there are in fact 2 charges. They quote one price, say '1000€ and no fees', then Expedia charges 5€ and Finnair charges 995€. To me that looks like expedia has a 5€ commission on all tix that AY sells through this channel.