UA F vs BR J - seat width, overall quality
Dec 11, 2014, 9:03 pm
#31
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EVA's FA's English ability has always been a problem. I guess they tend to hire FAs that are less educated (Jr. College / nursing school, etc. vs. university) as the corporate culture is to hire them young and train / brainwash them to the Evergreen Way.
In the early days of EVA, you can't even strike up decent conversations with FAs in Mandarin - many were just too young and inexperienced to converse. Now the young generation is not as shy.
A lot of the English problem can be easily corrected if they paid some attention - but they don't. For example: offer passengers snack instead of snake, as some say
It is made worse when some FAs use the same crazy artificial announcement tone in English as they do in Mandarin.
It would not be fair or reasonable to expect them to converse and behave the, for example, American way, when they speak English. It is not their native language or culture after all.
My impression is that the Thai/Vietnam FAs speak better English than the Taiwanese ones. I have yet to see a non-Taiwanese FA work in RL.
It used to be that the Taiwanese felt that they get treated 2nd class when flying on foreign carriers and even CI. One of the founding motivations for EVA is to have an airline where the Taiwanese are not treated 2nd class. I think that has been achieved.
In the early days of EVA, you can't even strike up decent conversations with FAs in Mandarin - many were just too young and inexperienced to converse. Now the young generation is not as shy.
A lot of the English problem can be easily corrected if they paid some attention - but they don't. For example: offer passengers snack instead of snake, as some say
It is made worse when some FAs use the same crazy artificial announcement tone in English as they do in Mandarin. It would not be fair or reasonable to expect them to converse and behave the, for example, American way, when they speak English. It is not their native language or culture after all.
My impression is that the Thai/Vietnam FAs speak better English than the Taiwanese ones. I have yet to see a non-Taiwanese FA work in RL.
It used to be that the Taiwanese felt that they get treated 2nd class when flying on foreign carriers and even CI. One of the founding motivations for EVA is to have an airline where the Taiwanese are not treated 2nd class. I think that has been achieved.
2. Stop using language as an issue when comparing services. My last three flight on UA 871/72 the crew in my business section is from Asia. They don't speak perfect english either.
3. I found UA attendant on typical extremely rude and indifference in serving their customer. Striking conversation with them is even worse. They really have 0 customer service skills.
Dec 12, 2014, 3:23 am
#32
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1. EVA requires FA to be college graduate of better. So stop with this none sense about less educated.
2. Stop using language as an issue when comparing services. My last three flight on UA 871/72 the crew in my business section is from Asia. They don't speak perfect english either.
3. I found UA attendant on typical extremely rude and indifference in serving their customer. Striking conversation with them is even worse. They really have 0 customer service skills.
2. Stop using language as an issue when comparing services. My last three flight on UA 871/72 the crew in my business section is from Asia. They don't speak perfect english either.
3. I found UA attendant on typical extremely rude and indifference in serving their customer. Striking conversation with them is even worse. They really have 0 customer service skills.
Dec 12, 2014, 7:51 am
#33
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For me, the FA's ability to communicate does affect the total quality of service. For others, it might not be. Since I am fluent in both languages, it is not an issue on BR for me. However, if you read the trip reviews, some do make it an issue and that is where we want BR to improve. This has become more important as the share of non-Chinese speakers increase due to Star Alliance.
I think we want to compare BR with the better ones and want it to be the best, not the worst. UA cabin crew's Mandarin ability is questionable: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...qualified.html Language is a sensitive issue in Canada/Quebec. Language (Mandarin vs. Taiwanese) is also an issue in Taiwan.
BR's hiring criteria for cabin crew say: "國內外大專院校以上畢業者，不限科系". That means any major in university or junior college. Granted, going to university does not necessarily improve one's English ability and they do have another requirement for English testing "全民英語能力分級檢定測驗達中級(含)以上程度或TOEIC 達500分以上或IELTS 4.0以上或TOEFL iBT達45分以上 或TOEFL ITP達450分以上或BULATS 40分以上。 " The Taiwanese are great in test taking
The philosophy is simple and widely accepted - hire employees who are younger, fresh and not as well educated so the company can train them and shape them before they pick up any bad habits elsewhere. It has worked well for Evergreen.
I first flew BR in 1992 and think it is a very good airline. There are always improvements to be made no matter how great you are.
I think we want to compare BR with the better ones and want it to be the best, not the worst. UA cabin crew's Mandarin ability is questionable: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...qualified.html
Language is a sensitive issue in Canada/Quebec. Language (Mandarin vs. Taiwanese) is also an issue in Taiwan.BR's hiring criteria for cabin crew say: "國內外大專院校以上畢業者，不限科系". That means any major in university or junior college. Granted, going to university does not necessarily improve one's English ability and they do have another requirement for English testing "全民英語能力分級檢定測驗達中級(含)以上程度或TOEIC 達500分以上或IELTS 4.0以上或TOEFL iBT達45分以上 或TOEFL ITP達450分以上或BULATS 40分以上。 " The Taiwanese are great in test taking
The philosophy is simple and widely accepted - hire employees who are younger, fresh and not as well educated so the company can train them and shape them before they pick up any bad habits elsewhere. It has worked well for Evergreen.
I first flew BR in 1992 and think it is a very good airline. There are always improvements to be made no matter how great you are.
Last edited by username; Dec 12, 2014 at 5:20 pm
Dec 13, 2014, 10:04 pm
#34
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Welcome to select Star Special, and allow you to enjoy more good time in the flight
You may not see the translation about express dining, but the Chinese menus did imply it is express dining, so that you can have more time to relax.
Dec 13, 2014, 10:35 pm
#35
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UA's F service is crappy beyond belief. On my last UA/F flight, pre-takeoff drinks were served in plastic cups, the table cloth was actually a napkin (tell tale button hole in the corner!), pilot declined to turn on channel-9 (a good part of my reason to suffer UA in the first place), the whiskey was Dewar's (I guess they could sink lower and serve Korean whiskey, if there is such a thing), lunch menu had the same steak and ice-cream sundae that they have served for the past 20 years in Business, the only extra course - the soup - was served in something resembling a thimble, inflight snacks were the sane as those served back in business, the FA has to raid her personal stocks because I asked for some green tea, NOT ONCE was I addressed by name...I could go on.
Pre-takeoff drink serve in plastic is nothing new, same with any other US base airlines. Pilot declined channel 9 ? Since when that is a must ? If you are a true PMUA flyer you know better (or even seen in the Hemisphere magazine) it is all about pilot's discretion.
PMUA NEVER served ice-cream sundae in C class (except ps flights) ! In a matter of fact, PMUA didn't even have the appropriate chinaware to serve and present ice-cream sundaes ! PMUA was all about cakes and tarts, an occasion sorbet ! Ice-cream sundae was an all time PMCO J class signature dessert ! It is only after the merger, ice-cream sundae showed up as dessert no matter F or C, well since the management is practically PMCO anyway.
Not addressing by name ? Same deal, because you were flying PMCO not PMUA ! PMCO FA wouldn't address you by name is because they do meal orders front to back vs PMUA FA address everyone by name, as PMUA take meal orders by status, as if they don't address you by name, they will get the wrong meal order. It was very common to see the FA dance around the cabin as status pax seated all over, you may get your order first but not your seatmate if he/she has lower status than you do. After the merger, meal orders only separate by GS flyers, however PMUA FA still address by name as that's what they used to do, PMCO don't do that. Perhaps can you even identify which flight is operated by PMUA and PMCO crew ?
You talked to the wrong person about some of the PMUA facts, just don't claim you know how bad UA is for the past 20 years !
P.S. What was the all time favorite meal chosen by PMUA FTers for flights to and from Japan in F and C ? It was so popular that even PMUA allow pax to pre-order in advance !
So what's your excuse about CX then ? CX has a ton more flights departing midnight no matter out of US or Europe, yet CX can still perform well ahead of BR no matter those who choose to linger on their meal service or fast sleeper.
Last edited by ORDnHKG; Dec 13, 2014 at 10:45 pm
Dec 14, 2014, 12:11 am
#36
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Coming from a pmCO I thought this trick worked but it didn't. When the merger first started, a lot of pmUA did not address F Pax by the name. I knew they were pmUA because we end up chatting for quite some time aboard.
Dec 14, 2014, 4:38 am
#37
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Dec 14, 2014, 12:27 pm
#38
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PMUA domestic usually go from front to back as it is less space compare to a widebody so less likely to address you by name (but I still had on occasion). International meal orders still go by status right after the merger at the beginning.
Just by the flight number and plane you already know if it is PMUA or PMCO, don't even need to talk to them.
Last edited by ORDnHKG; Dec 14, 2014 at 12:32 pm
Dec 14, 2014, 9:21 pm
#39
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+1. Try the French Canadians on Air Canada if you want crap service as an English speaking (native tongue) person. The service received by a native speaking Mandarin (Chinese is not a language) FA on BR is much better in comparison. Mrs. SAP is Caucasian and only speaks English, I watched carefully as to how she was treated by the BR crew, and she was treated very well. Not as homey as me speaking Mandarin, but close.
I did try AC- J once. In 2013 from Toronto to Frankfurt. The service was not bad better than LH (which I took from FRA to YVR).
But nothing beat SQ. As much as i like to complain about SQ service going down hill last couple years. Its still better than all other in *.
Dec 15, 2014, 3:58 am
#40
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Oh, I didn't know that (can speak but not read Mandarin). Thanks!
Dec 16, 2014, 10:16 am
#41
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Are you talking about domestic or international ?
PMUA domestic usually go from front to back as it is less space compare to a widebody so less likely to address you by name (but I still had on occasion). International meal orders still go by status right after the merger at the beginning.
Just by the flight number and plane you already know if it is PMUA or PMCO, don't even need to talk to them.
PMUA domestic usually go from front to back as it is less space compare to a widebody so less likely to address you by name (but I still had on occasion). International meal orders still go by status right after the merger at the beginning.
Just by the flight number and plane you already know if it is PMUA or PMCO, don't even need to talk to them.
how do you identify based on flight #?
Dec 16, 2014, 10:22 pm
#42
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Hong Kong and southern China = Cantonese, Chinese Traditional
Mainland China like Shanghai, Beijing = Mandarin, Chinese Simplified
Taiwan = Mandarin, Chinese Traditional
200-999 are sUA, the rest of them you know what they are.
Last edited by ORDnHKG; Dec 16, 2014 at 10:41 pm
Dec 17, 2014, 9:10 am
#43
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I think you mean you can't read Chinese not Mandarin, as Mandarin is a dialect. Even as a Cantonese speaker myself, I can still read Chinese simplified where most Mandarin speaking people write (except Taiwan) as the difference is minimal. The Chinese menus with BR is clearly printed in Chinese Traditional
Hong Kong and southern China = Cantonese, Chinese Traditional
Mainland China like Shanghai, Beijing = Mandarin, Chinese Simplified
Taiwan = Mandarin, Chinese Traditional
Hong Kong and southern China = Cantonese, Chinese Traditional
Mainland China like Shanghai, Beijing = Mandarin, Chinese Simplified
Taiwan = Mandarin, Chinese Traditional
Apr 5, 2015, 9:19 am
#44
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Now in TPE at the W-Hotel jetlagged and awake after Ximending night out. I arrived here friday on BR76 ams-bkk-tpe
So some thoughts on recent BR-service:
At ams & bkk: priority boarding enforced!
Bkk: temporary louis tavern silver business lounge a disaster, fled to TG E-lounge where i was able to shower, everything was clean and the food actually looked edible
On board supper service: sitting in second cabin - fast and done in approx 35/40min, starter plated on tray, round of bread, main dish served, afterwards tray with cheese-sweet-fruit. Dinner: mains were plated and wheeled out on trolly to be viewed and chosen.
Amineties: new rimowa, slippers, pj, sweetbasket before landing
Lav: kept clean, facemist, lotion, cleanser, handwash available
Menu: thank goodness for meal order, the standard items weren't really my taste, drinks list more choice on non-alchoholic offerings (calpis fruit - guave juice - iced coffee ucc - cranberry juice - ito en green tea)
FA: purser spoke excellent conversational english, announcement volume was barely above whisper tone - some FA's had trouble understanding my orders but all was deliverd well when pointing to the chinese menu. No problems getting inbetween snacks, meals and drinks from the galley, didnt use the call button as the whole cabin was snoring.
Disembarkation in BKK/TPE crew sprang up, closed the Y+/C curtain so we werent trampled
Luggage was on the carrousel ready, had a loooooong queue at immigration due to several planes arriving first, immigration friendly
Verdict: satisfied value for money: business D-fare 2144eur
So some thoughts on recent BR-service:
At ams & bkk: priority boarding enforced!
Bkk: temporary louis tavern silver business lounge a disaster, fled to TG E-lounge where i was able to shower, everything was clean and the food actually looked edible
On board supper service: sitting in second cabin - fast and done in approx 35/40min, starter plated on tray, round of bread, main dish served, afterwards tray with cheese-sweet-fruit. Dinner: mains were plated and wheeled out on trolly to be viewed and chosen.
Amineties: new rimowa, slippers, pj, sweetbasket before landing
Lav: kept clean, facemist, lotion, cleanser, handwash available
Menu: thank goodness for meal order, the standard items weren't really my taste, drinks list more choice on non-alchoholic offerings (calpis fruit - guave juice - iced coffee ucc - cranberry juice - ito en green tea)
FA: purser spoke excellent conversational english, announcement volume was barely above whisper tone - some FA's had trouble understanding my orders but all was deliverd well when pointing to the chinese menu. No problems getting inbetween snacks, meals and drinks from the galley, didnt use the call button as the whole cabin was snoring.
Disembarkation in BKK/TPE crew sprang up, closed the Y+/C curtain so we werent trampled
Luggage was on the carrousel ready, had a loooooong queue at immigration due to several planes arriving first, immigration friendly
Verdict: satisfied value for money: business D-fare 2144eur
Apr 5, 2015, 11:03 am
#45
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For me, the FA's ability to communicate does affect the total quality of service. For others, it might not be. Since I am fluent in both languages, it is not an issue on BR for me. However, if you read the trip reviews, some do make it an issue and that is where we want BR to improve. This has become more important as the share of non-Chinese speakers increase due to Star Alliance.
I think we want to compare BR with the better ones and want it to be the best, not the worst. UA cabin crew's Mandarin ability is questionable: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...qualified.html Language is a sensitive issue in Canada/Quebec. Language (Mandarin vs. Taiwanese) is also an issue in Taiwan.
BR's hiring criteria for cabin crew say: "國內外大專院校以上畢業者，不限科系". That means any major in university or junior college. Granted, going to university does not necessarily improve one's English ability and they do have another requirement for English testing "全民英語能力分級檢定測驗達中級(含)以上程度或TOEIC 達500分以上或IELTS 4.0以上或TOEFL iBT達45分以上 或TOEFL ITP達450分以上或BULATS 40分以上。 " The Taiwanese are great in test taking
The philosophy is simple and widely accepted - hire employees who are younger, fresh and not as well educated so the company can train them and shape them before they pick up any bad habits elsewhere. It has worked well for Evergreen.
I first flew BR in 1992 and think it is a very good airline. There are always improvements to be made no matter how great you are.
I think we want to compare BR with the better ones and want it to be the best, not the worst. UA cabin crew's Mandarin ability is questionable: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...qualified.html
Language is a sensitive issue in Canada/Quebec. Language (Mandarin vs. Taiwanese) is also an issue in Taiwan.BR's hiring criteria for cabin crew say: "國內外大專院校以上畢業者，不限科系". That means any major in university or junior college. Granted, going to university does not necessarily improve one's English ability and they do have another requirement for English testing "全民英語能力分級檢定測驗達中級(含)以上程度或TOEIC 達500分以上或IELTS 4.0以上或TOEFL iBT達45分以上 或TOEFL ITP達450分以上或BULATS 40分以上。 " The Taiwanese are great in test taking
The philosophy is simple and widely accepted - hire employees who are younger, fresh and not as well educated so the company can train them and shape them before they pick up any bad habits elsewhere. It has worked well for Evergreen.
I first flew BR in 1992 and think it is a very good airline. There are always improvements to be made no matter how great you are.
I've taken Asiana, Thai, JAL, EVA premium cabins this past summer and I found FA's English were all very similar. They were not perfect but I had no problem understanding them. I felt that they tried their best and provided friendly and excellent services. They always made me feel well treated.