catandmouse

There is no need to reserve trains in Switzerland (except if you want special seats in tourist trains such as the Glacier Express). I have never reserved a seat for a train in Switzerland.
Connections are normal and plenty of people do them thousands of times each day. There's no need to get stressed about it. In the big stations (Bern and Zurich), the signage is clear and will point you in the right direction.
Even in a really big station such as Zurich it isn't going to take more than 5 minutes to get from one end of the station to the other.

Fireflyer05

Actually that distance is not as that far as you would think.
As you can see in the plan at http://www.sbb.ch/content/dam/infras...rich-hb-a4.pdf, track 34 is in the underground, and track 10 is almost directly above track 34 on the surface, so you just go up two flights of stairs and you're done.

blueferrari

the more I think about it, I think you are completely right!
the reason is just we are travelling together in a numbee and do not want to be seated nowhere near each other.

nice information there. I see that station map as well and after some internet digging I knew they are in different level, but don't expect that easy. thanks for the info.


I'll stop worrying things now and just see what will work out. thanks again

BMWMOT

Hi, as someone mentioned above, I too find the SBB site lacking and to me as someone never using it before, not very user friendly. There seem to be so many pricing/ticket options, I'm completely confused.
Here is what I'm try to do. I'm hoping someone can lend guidance.
My wife and I will be in Switzerland for about 1 week (our first time).
The agenda is arrive ZRH in the morning. Take the train to Lucerne.
3 days in Lucerne.
Train to Lauterbrunnen.
3 days in Lauterbrunnen
Train to Zurich for 1 night
Train from Zurich to ZRH in the morning.
Keep in mind while in Lucerne, we'd like to visit Mt Rigi and/or Pilatus etc. While in Lauterbrunnen we'd like to go to the mountain tops, Jungfrau etc. Some passes give you discounts on these things and some may be included?

My questions/issues are two fold-
1. What is the best pass for us, if any?
I'm trying to figure out if the Swiss Pass or something else makes the most sense. I did email SBB and they suggested the Half Fare card. OK fine. How does it work? I can only buy it 2 months in advance and then what do I do?

2. Once I have bought my pass what's next?
Assuming I can buy it online, and once I have it (some kind of ticket number I assume vs and actual 'card') can I then begin to make reservations?

Do I need to make reservations in advance? Or, are we better off just showing up at the station and buying a ticket? What about seat assignments? Sounds like they're not needed? I'm reading catandmouse's comments above but I'm still stressing about it a bit.

Please be kind. I am admittedly a train travel newbie.
Thank you

Andre

Hi BMWMOT,

The SBB site is not the most pretty to look at, but it's quite straightforward once you get the hang of it. The pricing is actually reasonably simple, with 2 base "walk up" fare types available on all departures for a given itinerary:
- The full fare
- The half-price fare
There is no reason to buy these tickets until you get to the station. They are valid for any departure time on the specified route on the day of travel, or you can specify a later date of validity at the time of purchase. There is no discount for booking a roundtrip vs. 2 singles. Ticket machines that take all credit and debit cards are widely available at every station, or you can queue for a human teller at larger stations.

The full fare is available to anyone, obviously. The half-price fare is only available to children aged 16 or younger, dogs(!) and holders of various passes. The relevant pass for you as a foreign visitor is the one-month Swiss Half Fare card, which costs CHF 120.

In addition to those base fares, some trains have a limited number of discount tickets available. These can only be purchased online, are bound to a specific train and cannot be modified or cancelled. When discounted tickets are available, this will by flagged "%" sign and a lower price next to a given train/itinerary. The fares are also further reduced if you have a Swiss Half Fare Card. My advice to you would still be to ignore this option, as the savings are not that significant vs. the loss in flexibility - but that's my personal view of course.

There is a regional pass available for the Bernese Oberland area, but it's quite expensive at CHF 240 (full) / CHF 180 ("half price") for 4 days. I wouldn't take the risk even if there are potential savings (which I doubt anyway), as weather can be iffy in the area, and there's no point in going up to the Jungfraujoch or Schilthorn if the views are obstructed. Slightly OT: my 3 recommendations for the Lauterbrunnen area are: Schilthorn, hike (easy) from Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg and Jungfraujoch.

Potentially more interesting for you, there are combo offers available for day trips here on the SBB site. Currently, the selection is heavily skewed towards ski trips, but the summer deals should be up by May/June, and may include some of the peaks you intend to visit anyway. These deals are generally attractive, and can be purchased directly at any departure station in Switzerland, just like a normal ticket. Again, there are always "full" and "half price" fares available for these packages.

Finally, if applicable, you can add a day card for the local public transportation network at your cities of origin and/or destination to the walk-up fares (not the non-flexible ones or the combo deals) - this is called a "City-City Ticket". This is the only type of open ticket that it makes sense to buy ahead of time, if you will use it to get to your departure train station (could be the case in Luzern for example).

It's quite easy to get fare data directly from the timetable query results: the default "from" cost displayed is the half-price flexible fare - so use that to calculate total ticket cost with a Swiss Half Fare card. If that total cost is above CHF 120, it's worth buying the Swiss Half Fare card; if not, just buy full-fare tickets.

So to answer your specific questions:

I would just price the individual fares for the journeys you expect to take, and decide based on that whether a Swiss Half Fare Card makes sense or not. If the total expected cost on a half-price fare basis is above CHF 120, then buy the Swiss Half Fare Card; if not, just pay the full fare total of max. CHF 240.


If you decide to buy the Swiss Half Fare Card, do so when you arrive at Zurich Airport station, no sense in purchasing it in advance. The only train that it could possibly make sense to book in advance is the Jungfraujoch train, and even that is not mandatory. So just print out the schedules for the train journeys you intend to take, or save them to your calendar (very easy to do if you install the SBB app), and buy your tickets on the spur of the moment.

Have a great time visiting some of the world's most beautiful mountains!

BMWMOT

Wow, Thank you Andre for the detailed response. This is why I love Flyertalk!
It seems the half fare card is the way to go assuming we do get to visit one of the mountain tops. The fare alone to Jungfraujoch is 184CHF.

I was poking around the SBB site. I tried a dummy booking from Lauterbrunnen to Zurich. I noticed that it stops in Interlaken and Bern. I also noticed that the connection times are very short like ~5 minutes.

If we miss the connection, is it OK to take the next train with no additional fees? Or if want to walk around Bern for an hour or so to see the city, can we take any train or are tied to the connection that was originally purchased?

Andre

You're welcome!

Yes, assuming the weather cooperates, the half fare card will be worth it.

It is absolutely OK to take your time getting to your final destination, as long as you're not travelling on a non-flexible discount ticket. The only restrictions are:
- You must complete your journey on the ticket's day of validity
- If you intend to leave a train early (i.e. not at a connecting point), you must inform the conductor on the train you intend to exit prematurely of your plan when he/she comes to check your ticket. She/he will then mark the ticket accordingly, so that when you continue your journey on a later train, its conductor will be able to see that you are not attempting to re-use it. If no conductor checks your ticket before you get off a particular train, that is a moot point.

SwissBritMiss

I had started typing out a response but Andre got there first!

Just to add, as a general matter unless you are doing very long distances on a single day, the passes (Swiss travel pass, Tell Pass for Luzern area, Bernese Oberland pass) aren't worth it. The longest you have is Lauterbrunnen to Zurich, which is about CHF 80 full fare. That's the daily break even for a Swiss Travel Pass Flex: http://m.swisstravelsystem.com/en/passes/swiss-travel-pass-flex.html

I haven't included the mountain rails as these are usually excluded from the passes anyway - they will give you a 50% discount, no more than the Halb tax card would anyway. Although, in your instance, the Tell Pass does include the railway mountains, Rigi is cheap anyway (CHF 50ish for a full price day pass) and you're going back to Luzern, so again the price of the pass isn't worth it.

I did do a quick check of your plans on SBB vs pass combinations and it does seem that you are better off ignoring the usual passes, and provided you are definitely going up Jungfraujoch, a halbtax will make you chf60 better off each vs no Halb tax.

Enjoy our wonderful country

Andre

Hi Gotta Requalify, it seems your questions got lost in this thread - I'll answer, in the hope you haven't already booked. Please read my response all the way through, because I have some savings and additional flexibility in store

That is correct.

This depends on whether your pass was sold pre-validated (i.e. with travel dates already pre-printed on the pass), or as an open-dated document. If open-dated, you will need to validate the pass at Basel station.

However, I see no point in buying the passes ahead of time in the first place, since they can just be purchased at Basel station, where you need to change trains anyway.

That's a very good question; I assume that a Family Card, which is issued on a per child basis, is not linked to a specific pass number, but simply specifies that the child must be travelling with at least 1 passholder who is a parent.

Anyway, clarifying this in person is another good reason to purchase your pass at Basel station, if at all - see below...

You can buy these tickets directly from the SBB site. You just need to select the following passenger types:
- For each adult: "26-59 years", and "GA 2.cl." in the "Reduction for Switzerland" dropdown list (this is the equivalent of a Swiss Travel Pass, but targeted at Swiss residents and valid for a full year - choose "GA 1.cl." if you are travelling 1st class instead)
- For each child: [The correct age bracket] and "Junior Card" (the equivalent of the STS Family Card but as a standalone product) in the "Reduction for Switzerland" dropdown list
This will price the tickets correctly for all passengers. If you decide to take the direct train leaving at 08:46 (EuroCity express with compulsory seat reservation), you should get a fare of CHF 40 total for all 4 passengers.

Now for the good news:
If you are willing to commit to taking the 08:46 direct train from Luzern to Como and book ahead of time, you are eligible for a heavily discounted fare. Using that and otherwise just purchasing single full-fare tickets for adults, combined with a SBB Junior Card for each child, will result in total savings of approx. CHF 30 versus purchasing the Swiss Travel Pass, and more importantly gives you the flexibility to cancel/curtail your planned Rigi excursion if the weather doesn't cooperate, which is always a distinct possibility. For my calculation, I assumed everyone would take the "Classic Rigi Round Trip", which costs CHF 113 per adult, so CHF 226 total - this should more than compensate for any additional costs for an alternate, shorter itinerary that includes a visit to the Transportation Museum and a few trips on local buses.

How should you proceed?
1) Purchase reduced price tickets from Luzern to Como S. Giovanni station on the SBB site using this direct link. Use the same parameters as I described above, except do NOT select any reduction for the adults. Total price for all 4 travelers should be CHF 76. Discount ticket sales open 4 months ahead, so book as close to that date as possible to maximize availability.
2) Purchase 2 SBB Junior Cards at Basel Station at CHF 30 each, so CHF 60 total.
3) Purchase 2 normal full-fare adult tickets from Basel to Luzern (CHF 66 total)
4) Purchase full-fare adult tickets for your Rigi excursion (these can of course be special "Classic Rigi Round Trip" or similar offers, just without any additional discounts).

Even if you do decide to go for the Swiss Travel Pass, I would only purchase it on arrival at Basel station. However, it would make sense to book the Luzern-Como tickets ahead of time if you decide to take the 08:46 departure, as reservations are compulsory; you do not need to already have the passes in hand in order to do so.

Have a great time on your very short trip through Switzerland, hope you come back for a longer stay at some point

nrr

I'm visiting Zurich now. The second passageway has been remodeled (lots of stores) and links with tracks 31-34.
Before the December 13 time table release, (nearly) all mainline service departed from gates 1-18 (on the MAIN level), now they are making heavy use of 31-34, the plus is that trains can pass through the Zurich station (without changing direction--1 through 18 tracks are dead ends), the minus is the connection distances between 1-18 and 31-34 might be longer.
PS: (Nothing to do with trains) There is a COOP in the remodeled passageway, competition needed for MIGROS!, COOP sells hot food at a lower price than MIGROS (stand alone) TAKE-AWAY shop.

Gotta Requalify

Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I have relooked into it and I agree with you about the pass cost being iffy, we are likely to still go ahead with it anyway as listed below.

The main reasons why we want to purchase ASAP,
1) The A$ vs CHF is going up and down all the time (mainly down). So I lock in an exchange rate now rather than in 3 months later
2) Spread the cost. We are away for a month. The more costs we can spread throughout the year rather than when we come back from holiday the better.
3) Ease. We have two teenagers and our suitcases going through the train station, the less lining up, dragging bags through lines etc, the better.


I did a dummy booking for the travel pass with family card, and it asks for the start date (so I assume it would be validated). When listing the children's names it also has a space for a second adult and states that it would send the family pass as a PDF file to you, so I could then print off a second copy for my wife to carry.

Thank you sooo much for this information. By putting in "GA 1.cl" as the price reduction, I got all the information I needed about being able to book the trains.

Is it only the International Trains that go over a border that require a seat reservation? If I get an EC train from Basel to Lucerne, or Lucerne to Arth-Goldau do I need to get a reservation, or only when it crosses the border?

I asked my chief client (wife) about if she wants to book the 08:46 direct train and she is interested, but after a couple of weeks on the road, that may be a bit too early. So I assume if I download the SBB app, I could book the train the day before or morning of departure if I know I am going to make it. Otherwise go to the ticket office and say get me on the next train to Como. Which come back to your question - do I want to commit a month out to an 08:46 train!

I came up with the following costings, based on booking 1 to 2 months ahead to maximise the discounts. All costs are for 1st class.
Swiss Travel Pass - 3 days - CHF336 each - 672CHF
International add-on. CHF44 total.
Gives a total for using the passes of CHF716

If I buy individual tickets.
Junior Card - 30 each 60
Basel to Lucerne - 58 each adult 116
Lucerne to Como - Super Saver 164
Lucerne to Arth-Goldau 44.80
Arth-Goldau to Rigi Kulm 84
Rigi-Kulm to Lucerne via Vitnau 83
Rigi-Kulm to Lucerne via Weggis 71

Total 622.80

So a saving of CHF93.20 in total for 4 people if I book the tickets direct rather than use the travel pass. But if I don't book the super saver but book full fare on the Lucerne to Como leg, the price goes up from CHF164 to CHF268 leading to a total price of CHF726.80, which is more than the travel pass.

I understand your comment about if the weather is bad then we might not want to go, unless it is less than 10 degrees, or the rain is coming sideways, we are still going to want to look at the lake and have a look around the mountains - who knows, maybe make it a spa day on Mt Rigi.

To allow flexibility we are willing to forgo the CHF93 in saving and buy the pass. But I really appreciate the effort in the options you gave us.

I have been to Switzerland for work and very much enjoyed it, so am grateful that I can take my family this time to show it off. When the family discussed the itinerary, we gave the kids the option of going straight from France to Italy, but they insisted that we go through Switzerland. Personally I think it is just the chocolate they are after, but will give them the benefit of the doubt.

So while a short trip, it won't be our last.

Andre

You're most welcome! We can agree to disagree on this

For future reference, it would be great if you posted the outcome of your online booking to this thread.

Again, you're most welcome!

Correct, no mandatory reservations on any domestic SBB train, even the domestic portions of international trains.

BTW, not all international trains require reservations. You can easily see which trains have mandatory seat reservations when you perform a schedule search on the SBB site - those trains have an "R inside a box" pictogram (if you hover your mouse pointer over any pictogram, its label will show).

I proposed that train mainly because it's the only direct connection between Luzern and Como. You can do a simple schedule search on the SBB site to find other options.

Unfortunately, you cannot book international tickets on the SBB app; you can only do so on the SBB website. If you don't have a printer handy (or for those tickets that can't be printed at home anyway), you can choose to pick up your tickets at any station with a manned ticket counter. If you purchase international tickets (even passholder ones) directly at a station counter without making an internet booking beforehand, there is an additional CHF 10 booking fee per adult!

You have smart kids

kmandrew

Another Bernina question, traveling from Bellagio to a Zurich airport hotel on June 11. My research shows - ferry to Varenna then the 11:24 train to Tirano, wait an hour for the 14:00 Express. My question - Seat 61 advises to buy a ticket from Tirano to Freilburg, de Bahn says I can do this tomorrow to try to get the saver fare. From what I understand I would have to get off in Chur then buy a separate ticket to the airport so the total would run around 70 euros pp. I played around with the Swiss site and I think I can simply buy a ticket from Tirano to the airport for around the same amount of money; am I missing something; also does the Swiss site allow me to book 90 days out like the German site? I even tried the Italian site but it seemed even more confusing.

greg5

The SBB site might be proposing travel on the S-Bahn trains instead of the Bernina Express. These will take longer than the Bernina Express as they stop at all (or at least a good number of stops depending on the schedule). Although, other than the reservation fee, the price should be the same for a regular ticket from Tirano-Chur.

A DB super-saver fare will likely lock you into certain trains. Unless you book a saver fare with SBB, you'll be able to take any train.

I think you can only book a maximum of 60 days ahead on the SBB site, though the RhB site for Tirano-Chur might allow you to book earlier. For normal tickets there really isn't any advantage to booking ahead.

If you travel from Chur-Zürich, avoid the Regio-Express(RE) trains. They stop a more stops, so are slower. They are shiny and new, but they're crap to travel in.

kmandrew

I went to the Bahn site and put in Tirino to Freilburg, it seemed to work but asked me to log in for the price; I did so but it still didn't price. I have read the best seats sometime go quickly and I think the German site allows us to book specific seats. I emailed Bahn customer service so hopefully will get a response.