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Old Jul 26, 2016 | 7:34 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
These items are irrelevent to the original posted item about being entitled to cancel should the airline change the type of aeroplane

If there is a cancellation of a flight, then indeed a passenger is entitled to a refund - though under EK's CoC , not AA's ( as posted )
This is Emirates. And if you understand how to read sharply with critical definition, you would have no problem.
Boy you guys are always stubborn. Nobody can tell any of you anything LMAO. You obviously didn't read it. The combinations of and, or and if line up properly where the condition of a change in aircraft calls for an involuntary refund as well as shift in time or locations/stops does. I don't know why you are mentioning AA. I am giving you Emirates. All of those are from Emirates. From Emirates directly. Look at the top. If I say a picture of a tree is a tree, you will say, "Nope. It's a frog," won't you? Oh its too funny. Its like 99% of people on here is actually one stubborn person with a hundred usernames that doesn't like being wrong and is condescending of anyone that doesn't know something. Too, too funny. Really.
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Old Jul 26, 2016 | 9:29 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by JMGPhila
Per Emirates...

C85(a)(2)

Then look at applicable:

C90(B)(1)
C90(B)(1)(A)

It is very clear here. And if you look, its under "Involuntary" refunds. Thats because it is an International rule regarding commercial aviation.

J
The only reference to aircraft change is that EK may change scheduled aircraft. Completely unrelated to time changes or cancellations and the passenger right to change/refund.

Originally Posted by JMGPhila
9.1.2
&
9.2.2
through
9.2.2(c)
This has nothing to do with aircraft changes where there is no schedule change/cancellation. You need to read clause 9.1.2 in full, not isolated sentences.
Again, 9.2.2 does not cover aircraft changes only.
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Old Jul 26, 2016 | 9:43 pm
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Originally Posted by nux
The only reference to aircraft change is that EK may change scheduled aircraft. Completely unrelated to time changes or cancellations and the passenger right to change/refund.



This has nothing to do with aircraft changes where there is no schedule change/cancellation. You need to read clause 9.1.2 in full, not isolated sentences.
Again, 9.2.2 does not cover aircraft changes only.
I know the 9.1 and so on has nothing to do with plane change. 9.1.2 is extremely clear. It says that it will give you a scheduled time for that flight. There may be changes in the schedule and you have to make sure that you are vigilant to address any changes. Not said but obviously, if you fail to be on top of it, you are SOL. If you are issued your ticket and the time changes, the involuntary refund option applies. Always comments like that. "You have to read the full clause. Not isolated sentences." How does anyone stay reading comments like that? As if talking to young children. I suppose reclusive, older narcissists. It was highlighted. It doesn't take a lawyer to understand this, although I wouldn't still be arguing about it if there was.

And the aircraft is covered under Flight Delays and Cancellations. Then addressed in Involuntary. The wording does not require the schedule be impacted although there is an "and" in there. It does cover plane change only. It is regarding the items covered within the Delay and Cancellation SECTION. It is not trying to tell you simply Delays and Cancellations apply.

I don't understand. Its always people on here telling you you are doing it wrong. Only the people that spend their lives on this thing, though. Aviation enthusiasts certainly are not attorneys. Its so funny how this place rejects the fact that there are tariffs, laws, general rules and regulations. This applies to all airlines who want to operate international with the US and Canada (actually only required to be honored to US RESIDENTS. Read again. required. That does not mean that they wont otherwise. I am just saying that for US residents, it is required. The remaining of it has parts that both apply and do not apply when dealing with passengers not resident to US or Canada. Sorry, I am trying to think what next BS response is going to come. "You're doing it wrong."

Last edited by JMGPhila; Jul 26, 2016 at 10:14 pm
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Old Jul 26, 2016 | 10:02 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by JMGPhila
I know the 9.1 and so on has nothing to do with plane change. 9.1.2 is extremely clear. It says that it will give you a scheduled time for that flight. There may be changes in the schedule and you have to make sure that you are vigilant to address any changes. Not said but obviously, if you fail to be on top of it, you are SOL. If you are issued your ticket and the time changes, the involuntary refund option applies. Always comments like that. "You have to read the full clause. Not isolated sentences." It was highlighted. It doesn't take a lawyer to understand this, although I wouldn't still be arguing about it if there was.
So as I said, completely irrelevant to aircraft changes.

Originally Posted by JMGPhila
And the aircraft is covered under Flight Delays and Cancellations. Then addressed in Involuntary. Or did I make a mistake? Did I tie the wrong section to the Involuntary?
EK just states that they may substitute aircraft and do not guarantee the assigned aircraft, as part of the 'Time and Schedule Not Guaranteed' section. The 'Right To Cancel' section makes no reference to aircraft changes, and again the Involuntary makes no reference to aircraft changes.

So again as I said, completely irrelevant and does not at all mean that in the case of an aircraft change (only) the passenger has the right to cancel/change.

Originally Posted by JMGPhila
I don't understand. Its always people on here telling you you are doing it wrong.
If people are always telling you that you are wrong, may mean you are. Especially when you make comments like "Also, a change in equipment under International General Rules allows for a customer to change their flight, free of any fees." which are wrong. But as long as you think you are right..
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Old Jul 26, 2016 | 11:54 pm
  #50  
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Old Jul 26, 2016 | 11:57 pm
  #51  
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JMGPhila - if 99% of the people have a different opinion, it's something you should consider.

For clauses like 9.1.2, unless it's completely explicit in the text that something (such whether it's "not acceptable") is in your absolute discretion (which, in this case, it's not), a standard of "reasonableness" will be applied by any arbitrator, judge or court. Your flight or the alternative flight is changed to arrive 30 minutes later than previously scheduled? No one will give you a refund if just you think that's unacceptable.

As for 9.2.2, I fail to see where an aircraft change would trigger this clause unless the airline is unable to "operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule". Again, "reasonably" is a well established legal standard.
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Old Jul 27, 2016 | 12:09 am
  #52  
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Originally Posted by nux
.

So again as I said, completely irrelevant and does not at all mean that in the case of an aircraft change (only) the passenger has the right to cancel/change.
Indeed. In the images posted , I couldn't see any words that suggested that a change of aeroplane type provides grounds for fee free cancellation

Things such as being able to cancel should a flight be cancelled was never in doubt
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Old Jul 27, 2016 | 12:09 am
  #53  
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This has echoes of an infamous thread

For the avoidance of doubt, carriers file tariffs containing "general rules" with the DoT - most, if not all fares, filed with the DoT incorporate a Conditions of Carriage which satisfy DoT requirements.

That is why on the US EK website, you only have the US CoC (which is different from rest of the world CoCs - the material difference is provision about service animals), whereas on the Canadian EK website you also have the Canadian "tariff": which I suspect has been superceded because:

- there are references to "Rule 240" which doesn't exist
- there are references to the EC "European Community"
- it also refers to itself as a Conditions of Carriage

In terms of changing schedule, if that schedule change is unacceptable and they can't accommodate date you on an alternate flight which is acceptable to you, you get an involuntary refund under 10.2.

An aircraft type change isn't a schedule change (unless you want to litigate the point!).

Flight is also not specifically defined in the CoC!
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Old Jul 27, 2016 | 6:47 am
  #54  
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I'm confused.

9.1.2 refers to the departure time of the flight. The departure time has not changed for the OP: EK29 will continue to depart at 0940 Dubai time.

9.2.2 refers to "failing to operate the flight reasonably according to schedule". It makes no reference to aircraft type. If a B777 is substituted for an A380, but runs on time, then the flight has operated to schedule. If you are bumped down to Business from First Class because the plane doesn't have your class then you'd have an argument for a change or partial refund for the reduction in class. But if you bought and are allocated a Business Class seat on a B777 instead of an A380 and you arrive on time then you've got what you paid for.
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