I really can't get this argument. PE is Premium Economy, not Downgraded Business class. J+ is Premium Business, not Downgraded First class. Do you have an F option on CO, DL, VS etc?

I'm comparing regular class to an upgrade version of the same class. I'm not comparing the upgraded class to the next level. I'm not comparing PE to J just like I'm not comparing J+ to F. People who want F will not travel on CO, DL, VS and is this model goes through not on LY either. F is irrelevant for this argument - LY is trying to eliminate it anyway.

That is precisely the problem!

In theory, yes. In practice, whether a computer glitch or a packed flight, I have a colleague who was called midweek and asked if they'd like a last-minute upgrade to Business. They agreed. At the airport they were then upgraded to First. I should be so lucky. The last time I came back from India on a Thursday night I was 25th in line for an upgrade. This is with me being Gold, with a Y ticket and having accumulated 4150 points in the previous 12 months.

No, but neither do you have 2 different Business class cabins.

Once again, we all agree that this is a new concept that is not implemented anywhere else. Once again, this does not automatically mean it is a bad idea.

Yes it does.....purely based on the fact that every other airline has taken a look at this option and realised it's better to go down the PE route than Pseudo Business Class.

But guess what....based on my statement above...ELAL are 100% going to go ahead with this 2 Class Business option, because ELAL knows best! :rolleyes:

They're absolutely crazy....and I’d love to see what they charge?

One thing I have to say is, if....and only if....they will charge PE prices for these seats could I see this working....but from what I’ve heard the prices will stay the same and the Business/First will be priced 25-35% less than the current FIRST class prices.

Now I'm confused. You seem to be saying that they are considering downgrading the current Business product. I haven't seen that mentioned.

Apparently TAM has it ...

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...d.main/3011084

At the end of the day, it will all depend on what we will get for our money.
Its going to be hard for LY now to convince ppl to pay more for a product they can get with AC, CO and DL (their buisnessfirst) since those airlines offer some discounted business fares which will probably be the same price as the LY regualar business. The only added value is the chance on LY to be upgraded to the premium business.
I still need to decide what I will do. Because with this new option I can still enjoy upgrading from Y to C with LY at the last minute. As soon as that is gone, I doubt I will continue with LY.

Great, let's use TAM as an example...
Guess we have totally given up on trying to have the service even AMERICAN carriers provide???

Having flown TAM before I will say it is an experience best forgotten!

The more this is debated the more silly this is.

El Al is admitting that they don't have a competitive J class product and to rectify that they are making US pay a premium over their already high prices to get what we should already be getting! They aren’t pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes on this one!

I am fuming over this!

I hope this fails and costs much $$$. MAYBE they will learn a lesson.

Hey El Al, why don't you do this:
744's - F, NEW J, Y+ and Y (BA, ANA, UA etc can manage it). Y+ could be for GL/PL pax or those paying full Y.
777's - Ver. 1 - 4 Planes with F, NEW J, Y+, Y (done on many carriers)
777's - Ver. 2 - 2 planes with NEW J, Y+, Y (for HKG/BKK/Far East Runs) - again a tries and true method
767's - NEW J, Y
787's - IF the above scenario works out then a mixture of F, J, Y+, Y and J, Y+, Y...

I know many people who are BA Gold and would pay for Y+. It works quite well on VS with their premium ECON (not halfway house J)...

Corporate travel depts. will (mark my words) book people in J- as that’s what its code in the system will be!

I have to believe someone with a functioning frontal lobe works at LY... Their safety and security will not guarantee them routes forever and personally, if VS ever flew there LY may loose me forever... They provide wonderful service ON BOARD in F and (usually) J but management seems determined to run the airline into the water!

NB NO AIRLINE operates a fleet with BusinessFirst AND Business while also operating flights with F!
How will the booking system see aircraft changes on 777 flights booked in A class (which currently provide a F seat) during an A/C swap? It still has a much higher premium over J!

Very nice.
Well, for now its only going to be a pilot and if it works then I hope we will enjoy it as well, but if it fails I hope LY will reorganize itself and get back on the track they were a year ago when they were planning on upgrading the 767 fleet to 787 and panning on upgrading the platinum without the strings attached.

Just to add a little levity what are the classes now going to be called?

First, Super-terrific Platinum, Platinum, Business, Coach?

In fact, let's continue this thread with possible names for Platinum Class 2...

I say "Super-Terrific Platinum Class" (big Seinfeld fan) but you may dissent :)

I say,

"Economy Rip Off"
"Wanna be Premium Economy but we'll call it Business Class"
"BusinessFirst even though we're charging the same price as First Class on our 744's"
"First Class....or is it Business?....or is it First?.....or is it Business?"

What a bunch of nutters.....next they'll starting have classes for the cargo hold! :rolleyes:

PLEASE don't give them any more ideas...

The real tragedy here is for the prices they charge, their product SHOULD be first rate, even after taking into account the hold that unions have over airline industry...

Heck they have a monopoly on the BKK run (with guaranteed pax coming from TG), ORD, LAX, HKG, Beijing and other high-yield runs... El Al should not be penny pinching at all!

I look forward to more competition at TLV as it will help retool El Al's operation. It's not that I don't love them... It's just that they cant ride on their laurels anymore...