I don't know what a "Red Robin" restaurant is, but even in New York, you can go to fine restaurants in which the entrees prices are ~ $20 per person.

Indeed, I think both Schillers and Balthazar fit into that category and are probably better than 99% of the restaurants in the US. I could likely name 10 others with similar qualifications in NY. Both are incredibly noisy restaurants by the way. I find the whole attempt to argue it based on price a bit silly. It is more of an ambiance thing than price or food quality.

While I agree that patrons of a fine dining restaurant shouldn't be subjected to screaming kids, I'm not sure anyone outside of a McDonald's kiddyland type place should either. If it's a $15 luncheon or $50 dinner, I don't want to hear screaming kids. But upper scale restaurants sell their ambiance as well as their food and if banning kids isn't an option, they should always be seated in the least central spot. Ideally a restaurant would have a separate dining area so that the parents of screaming children could enjoy the screams of other people's children. The very least that should be done is to ask the parent to step outside with the child or if something could be done to help - maybe the child was hungry and the parent didn't want their meals to get cold? The maitre de could offer to keep the parents plate warm). If that fails, offer to box up their meals.

Yes, I would be annoyed if I had to put up with what was described in Grays Papaya. Fortunately, in their its a pretty good chance one of the other customers would have taken care of the annoyance, one way or another

Unless the line is very long, just buy the hotdog and drink and go.

I like standing at the counter and looking out the window and soaking in the atmosphere

Well, you could, but it might not be the MR you were expecting....

www.freedomoftheseas.com

Ship has two dining rooms, Chops and Portofino, where no children under 13 are allowed. (Othr Royal Caribbean ships also have the same restaurants with similar age restrictions.) And yes, there is a $20 pp fee for these restaurants, just FYI.

And to keep on topic, Red Robin is similar to an Applebees/ Fridays type atmosphere. While I am mindful that families eat here and kids will sometimes misbehave, even when I am at an Applebees/Fridays/Outback type place, it's no less annoying to hear children screaming or misbehaving (or idiots carrying on lengthy cell conversations et al.) in an atmosphere such as this than it is to hear them in a fine establishment. My meal is still being ruined, no matter the cost. (I guess our expectations are just lower there.)

You're generous in your comparison of RR to Applebees/Fridays. It is definitely more geared to families and kids. The one I eat at occasionally in the Cleveland area gives out ballons. Let that be your warning: ballons = many children usually without limits or parental controls. I would go to an Applebees locally at 9:00 pm on a Friday night and not expect many children, if any. That Red Robin will be crawling with rugrats at the same time. Of course it doesn't bother me - I sit at the bar and have a couple drafts with my burger.

This is strictly an academic question, as I don't have children, and don't go to places like Applebees and Red Robins, but I'm curious. Do people really think that there are any public places (except, perhaps, playgrounds and the like) where it is appropriate for children to be without limits or parental controls?

The concept strikes me as wrong on so many levels.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; PPC; 240x240) Opera 8.60 [en])

I dont think believe in the concept of parental control free public areas, except for exceptions such as parks. certainly nor in restaurants.

Thanks for the link...alas, with my luck, I'd end up on a cruise jam-packed with kids!

I believe that RR is more kid-friendly, as previously posted, than Applebee's or Fridays'. I have adopted the "eat at/in the bar" as a way to attempt to avoid the kid factor. Fortunately, I also like to eat rather late and that also helps. I miss California, as they do not allow anyone < 21 AT the bar, and that also helps.

I also agree that "parental-control-free" is pretty much unacceptable anywhere. Yes, parks are (generally) loud with kids playing and people usually don't go there for the deafening quiet, so maybe that is an exception for kids having fun and being loud, as is an amusement park. But a screaming baby and/or out of control kids just about anywhere else in public is just unacceptable. Parents need to remove the "offender" from the immediate area. This includes children having temper tantrums at the supermarket/Target/etc. How else does the child learn what constitutes acceptable behavior? Yes, it's often inconvenient for the parent(s). Life's not fair. You chose to have the children, please rear them responsibly. You owe THEM that.

Our 2 year old child is well behaved, yet makes a mess. We tip quite well indeed; typically in proportion to the service PLUS extra based on how much of a mess. 25-30% is not uncommon. We average about half a dozen compliments on our child's beauty, intelligence and general well mannered behavior during each meal.

We also take our child wherever we dine. We just dine from about 5 to about 6-6:15, before non family folks typically eat. We often see other families with small children during that time. If you visit a restaurant during "family hour," you assume the risk, IMO.

Wow. Every aspect of your experience is the same as ours, except we've done this with two girls who are now 9 and 6. It's much less messy now, and we're back down to 20% tipping.

Does that mean we're both unreasonable arseholes?

I would never call FTer an arsehole, and I'm certainly not doing that here.

I would point out, though, that the kind of mess that necessitates a "very nice tip," is not exactly anything anyone wants to see at a nice restaurant.