PTravel, I think everyone here, and most everywhere else in the civilized world agrees with you that the fine dining experience should not be ruined by unruly children.

I think the ability to enforce it is what is in question.

As much as you may desire the perfect romantic, quiet fine dining experience each time you go to a restaurant, this is probably just an impossible expectation, for many reasons. Even if children are not present, or are present and well-behaved, many other factors may diminish the evening for you. Is the waiter slow? The food not what you expected? Or heaven forbid, the well dressed businesssman at the table next to you begins chatting on his cell phone? If you eliminate the restaurants that allow children, cell phones, loud patrons, drinking (for sure someone will get drunk and annoying), a bad meal or bad service on occasion, I fear you will find yourself starving soon. You just cannot ensure a 100% satisfactory dining experience every time you dine in even the very finest of restaurants.

The elimination of children from such restaurants, which might not be a bad idea (I dined twice in the past 2 weeks at establishments where no one under 13 was allowed) will still not guarantee that you will have a flawless evening.

The only way to make sure that you have an uninterrupted perfect meal is probably to dine at home.

Bad manners and behavior are bad manners and behavior no matter whether they are displayed by children or by adults.

Sorry, but by the same logic restaurants might as well admit water buffalo since, most of the time, they graze peacefully. This has nothing to do with guaranteeing a perfect dining experience. It is simple courtesy and common sense -- babies and very young children have no business being in fine restaurants, theaters, at concerts, etc.

When a baby cries in a restaurant or a toddler shrieks out of control, it is not bad manners on the part of the child, but on the part of selfish and thoughtless parent. Restaurants do everything in their power to make a dining experience a quality one. Barring young children and babies is an obvious and easy step.

My logic for not doing so is that a restaurant with an average entree cost of $6 makes its profit goal on volume and can afford to ignore the squeamish former customer in favor of the uninformed masses. In a full restaurant, no one else seemed to take notice of the violation of common courtesy and health codes.

Plus, I have my standing orders from Mrs BamaVol.

Amen. The problem is that bad parents ruin it for everyone. I have a 3-year-old niece who often travels and eats out with the rest of the family. It's never been a problem because she knows how to behave in a nice restaurant, and because she knows that my sister will have her out the door in a flash if she makes any trouble -- be it raining, cold, whatever. It's amazing how fast a toddler tantrum ends when the immediate consequence is standing outside in the cold and dark. (It's also amazing what kids will learn to enjoy if you feed them real food instead of chicken nuggets -- she's been eating sushi, kim chee, goat cheese, etc. since she could walk.)

If other parents took the same approach (sit near the door or aisle, and remove the kid the second there's trouble), very few people would object to having kids around. But there are those parents who will just let an infant scream without trying to calm her, and who bring rambunctious preschool boys to restaurants without bringing coloring books or anything to keep them occupied.

To directly answer the OP's question, yes, the staff should politely and discreetly ask if there's anything they can do for the baby, and if the parents insist everything's fine, staff should request that she be taken outside until she's calmer.

It's very unfortunate when people do things like this. Of course, people tend to throw that 'fine dining' monicker around with reckless abandon these days. If it truly was a high end restaurant, then there should be no kids there. You should have first complained to the person in charge of the restaurant for letting a small child in there. It's not a Bennigan's, TGI Fridays, Outback or one of those other terrible places that people go to that cater to children and families. This is the restaurants mess and you should have made them pay by comping your meal.

I would also have very publicly confronted the couple with the screaming child. Some people become immune to it and forget that others dont and some other people are just a-holes. In either case, if you're paying $30 a plate for dinner then you shouldn't have to hear it. If they can afford a nice restaurant then they can afford a sitter.

You'll notice that even on here some people have 0 class. Things like bringing your own $10 bottle of wine into a restaurant (one of the FT members actually does this on what seems to be a regular basis) and taking in a screaming kid are usually done by cheapskates who only think of themselves.

Hold the restaurant accountable for it and hold the people accountable for it. If it's bothering you, then it's likely bothering everyone else and you'll be taking leadership in the situation. If you're in a more casual dining place, then you will have to just deal with it as it's par for the course.

On the website for Babette's Cafe in Atlanta:

Children: Nicely behaved children are welcome. We even have a few ourselves. We have a limited number of highchairs and even a �Kid's Menu�. Parents, please take your squirmers outside and any parent letting their child become a nuisance will be flogged.

Where? Please, do tell! ^ Do we have a website yet for these places?

This is exactly the sort of place I am looking for. Heck, I'll work an MR around it if possible.

Would having 0 class also include "very pubicly confronting" the offender of your senses? I think you are right some people have 0 class. Well said.

$30 a plate constitutes 'high end' or 'nice'? Maybe in some places...

Only those crass, unrefined types would seek help from the staff of the restaurant, or failing that, discretely request the family to take the crier outside. Those who have class know that creating a scene is best.

My wife and I took a close friend (who I might add some would say has class based on his Cambridge undergraduate and doctoral degrees ) to Alain Ducasse New York for dinner a couple years ago. During one of the early courses his cell phone went off. The maitre de quantum teleported from wherever he was to our tableside. French Foreign Legionnaires came down from the ceiling as backup. The maitre de apologized for forgetting to offer to store my friends phone during the dinner but offered to do so immediately. My friend said that wasnt necessary but he would turn the ringer off. The maitre de suggested it would be best to turn the power off on the phone instead. The Legionnaires locked and loaded their weapons, my friend complied. All smiled. The Legionnaires disappeared into the ceiling. The maitre de bowed and left to tend to other guests.

That is what happens at $50 per person restaurants!

Yes, Navio should have done something. It's a sad commentary on society that the couple didn't have enough sense or courtesy to take the child outside. We never took the kids to "fine" restaurants, but when they got a bit older we'd occasionally take them to Applebees type places. And they quickly learned that if mom's dinner was interrupted, no one was happy.

Now they are 12 and 14 and we rarely have to drag them out by their ear.

I guess not all of us have your size bank account.

It wasnt a question of who has more money. What constitues a higher end resturant is the real question? If you dont have money and your "night out" contitutes a trip to Red Robin, you certainly dont have the right to complain that kid noise is disrupting your "fine dining" experience.

No one in this thread has suggested that Red Robin constitutes "fine dining," nor is it particularly difficult to recognize those restaurants with which crying babies and screaming toddlers are completely incompatible.