bhrubin

This is no way diminished the quality of restaurants in Tokyo (or anywhere else), but the Michelin standard is not the be-all, end-all of established restaurant quality IMO. I've been to too many 3 star restaurants that weren't any better than 1 or 2 star restaurants in terms of food quality and service--but they always were more formal and pricey. I think being starred by Michelin typically reflects that a restaurant is wonderful, but I don't usually agree with their relative differences. Michelin also doesn't bother with too many cities where there are tremendous restaurants, so it lacks a truly comprehensive world-wide basis for comparison.

I've been to Noma and Amber and Lung King Heen and Meadowood and French Laundry, among so many others. Michelin doesn't always get it right. So judging a city by Michelin stars isn't enough to convince me.

HKTraveler

Give Japan a try, you might be pleasantly surprised

JimJ321

From the list I have only had the pleasure of dining at Alinea. Mind blowing. Was slated to go to French Laundry but could not make the trip to Napa for another business obligation. I will try there soon, or Per Se if the opportunity arises.

bhrubin

You misunderstand--I do believe that Japan has outstanding restaurants. Tokyo is most certainly among the great food/restaurant capitals of the world. I simply do not buy into the ratings which oversimplify the diversity of excellence that can be found around the world in cuisine and restaurants.

SuperDudley

I have reservations for Central and Astrid y Gaston in September. Can't wait to try them out.

bhrubin

If you want to do the tasting menu at Astrid y Gaston, you need to reserve that in advance--in addition to the reservation to dine there. I highly recommend it! I also recommend asking at Central for a table closer to the kitchen in the main dining room so you don't get stuck in one of the side hallways there.

You'll love both restaurants--they are tremendous.

GadgetFreak

We have been fans of St. John, La Bernadin and Pierre Gagnaire for years. We have also been to a number of the others. I have to say I never quite agreed with this list. In terms of ones I had been too I wouldn't generally order them as on the list. Although it is useful as an alternative view to Michelin.

We are booked at Alinea next month. A return visit for me and a first visit for my wife. I thought it was mind-blowing lay good on my first visit. A few friends and I are also trying to book Noma in the fall.

thucanhho

I too love Alinea. I would also recommend Achatz's Aviary if you have not been. I too am hopeful for Noma in the Fall. Good luck to both of us.

HKTraveler

Just saw this article by Andy Hayler listing what he thought an alternative 50 to the Pellegrino list should be. Not surprisingly, 13 out of the 50 hails from Japan.

http://www.andyhayler.com/blog/post/...legrino-forgot

HKTraveler

Here is another list:

http://www.glammedia.com/verticals/f...s-of-the-world

bhrubin

I work in the college admissions world, and I always laugh at students and families who talk about one college being better than another because it ranked higher in the US News & World Report rankings. I similarly love wine and laugh about wine scores.

People who truly consider rankings as absolutes are sheep who prefer being told what is best (which doesn't exist) instead of deciding for themselves what is best FOR THEM.

The Pellegrino and Michelin and other rankings are all merely guideposts for what may be your potentially favorite restaurants in the world. No ranking is perfect because no one has a universally perfect palate able to discern what is best for anyone else.

Those who wish to use this forum to tear apart the various rankings and/or debate why some are included or others are not should feel free to start their own thread. I use the Pellegerino list as a guidepost to help choose restaurants; I don't always use. I had researched Central in Lima and made my reservation there BEFORE it was even on the top 100 list...and then dined there after it debuted at 50. Now, a year later, it is 15 on the list. No one who is intelligent and rational thinks it became so much better in such a short time; it merely is getting a higher ranking now in relation to the biases of the judges who set the criteria, relative to their biases for and against other restaurants.

Guideposts are useful, if only to allow us to learn of great places in new destinations. For me, ANY ranking that assigns so many "top" designations for any one country is ridiculous--as that implicitly suggests that one country's cuisine is inherently better than another's, which rarely is true. More popular, maybe, but not better.

Any decent ranking SHOULD push the geographical limits to include the best cuisine from all parts of the globe. That means some restaurants in serious foodie cities get left off, and that's OK by me. I've always loved Meadowood more than French Laundry, and that hasn't changed just because Meadowood is now on the top 100 list for the first time EVER. Some people hate that their favorites aren't on the list, and they can digress and discuss that disgust elsewhere.

This thread is here to designate your favorite restaurants. If you have one that you think is worthy, mention it so we can all consider it as a future option. It doesn't much matter whether it's "ranked" or has enough "stars" except to the label conscious...who often don't care as much about the food as much as the prestige...just as with colleges and wines.

HKTraveler

Wow, what a condescending response. I am merely pointing out that Japan is under-represented on the Pellegrino list. That is my personal opinion and one shared by many others. And for the record, I do believe some cuisines are inherently better than others. There are many great cuisines but not all cuisines are on the same level.

bhrubin

I don't mean to be condescending at all, so sorry that's how you took my comments. Everyone has their opinions, and those are mine. I am forthright and share them, but I appreciate that online forums don't always allow us to type out the intricacies of our thoughts as clearly as we might prefer.

I don't find it condescending that you believe some cuisines are inherently better than others, but it certainly is not an opinion I share. I respect that you think Japan is under-represented on the Pellegrino list, but I don't agree that it is as under-represented largely because I don't think that Japanese cuisine is somehow better or superior, as your comments suggest that you do.

Are all cuisines made equal? Of course not. But saying that French or Italian or Chinese or Japanese or California or Hawaiian or Mexican or Peruvian or Brazilian or Carribean or Moroccan or Indian or Scandinavian or Russian cuisine, etc, somehow have a pecking order in being better than each other or others is something that I don't at all believe to be true. Are there more gourmet French and Italian and Japanese restaurants than those for other ethnic cuisine? Absolutely! But I don't believe that belies that those cuisines are inherently better. The fact is that there are more people eating Chinese cuisine in the world--since there are more Chinese people, after all--than any other, but that doesn't imply that Chinese cuisine is any better than any other IMO, either. (I personally am not a big fan of Chinese, as it turns out!)

I think we need to appreciate that we all see things differently, take the opinions of others with less personal offense and more global understanding that there are no absolutes when it comes to such matters.

EuropeanPete

I doubt HKTraveler was trying to make that point. A large number of Japan's best restaurants (and unsurprisingly they are often the multi-Michelin star and in the San Pellegrino list) are not any of the Japanese styles of cuisine (of which there are many).

It's a fact that the Japanese invest heavily in good cuisine and also have a certain knack for it. You'd have to be extremely creative to demonstrate that Russia's 150 million population has generated the volume and quality of excellent restaurants that Japan has.

bhrubin

I am aware that many of Japan's wonderful restaurants are not Japanese cuisine, but the point is still salient IMO that no country has quite the monopoly on top restaurants nor on top cuisine as much as so many herein have claimed. Popularity is not the same as superiority IMO.

Food culture and economics play a major role in where "top" restaurants are located. There is a reason that some of the highest cost of living cities so often also have so many of what we consider to be the best restaurants. It is also a reason why so many other great restaurants are often ignored or forgotten in such rankings.

I am sorry that you and HK don't agree with me. I respect your opinions, but I don't quite see things the same way. That's what makes our world and the world of dining such a wonderful thing to me.