CGRA

The staff was coming (mainly) from "Bugeaud" (they close Bugeaud to open Champs Elysees)
I could be wrong on the different ownership but I don't believe so

I remember at FS provence few years ago, one of the SPA therapist told me that she was working in at F GV for a few weeks to help them, despite they have different ownership. Maybe it's the same here

CGRA

Yes I agree that a lot of dishes are very similar
Probably "Jojo" is still involved on the menu & cuisine and he's is not only selling his name but also his cusine with some kind of consulting role.
Would love to have the details of the deal, same for Ducasse & the other "business" chefs with a lot of restaurants

Once in Vegas, I was told that I missed him as he just spent 2 or 3 weeks there and was sleeping at the Mansion.

Movement of staff : between the same country ? In Paris ?

jologolf212

Please excuse my naiveté as I’m still new to this website and these threads.
Been trying to read and catch up as much as I can.

I find it funny and fascinating that people get upset at these lists (Michelin, Zagat, San Pellegrino, etc.) as to what the best restaurants in the world are.
Even funnier are the comments from people knocking or praising these restaurants down because of a personal experience they had.
I’m sure if everyone was to come up with their own top 10 list, it would get bounced around just as much, simply for the fact that these top ranking are so subjective, especially when you get to this level.

I think each ranking has their problems and it’s up to each person to see what’s important to them and which ranking they rely on.

For me, I think San Pellegrino is a joke for one main reason. Up until a few years ago, the whole voting process was a joke. I still think the current limitation on how many restaurants you can vote for, what region it has to come from, the number of “newer” restaurants you have to vote on, and other restricting rules make this survey a joke.

Quick story- A few years ago, El Bulli received an inordinate amount of votes as the best restaurant in the world. There were so many vote for the restaurant in that one year that it would have been impossible for that restaurant to accommodate so many diners. When questioned about this, San Pellegrino said that the voters were not limited to only voting for restaurants they have eaten at. They were allowed to vote for restaurants based on information received from other people or publications to form their vote. I’m still perplexed how you can vote for food, ambiance, and service at a restaurant you have never been to. If you have to rely upon someone else’s information to rank a restaurant, you should probably ask that third person to vote for it rather that yourself.

To answer the OP’s question- I actually people’s plans can be severely affected. For example, getting a reservation at 11 Madison Park is much more difficult that it was a year ago. Not saying it’s impossible, just more difficult. I personally would not go out of my way to eat at a top 10 San Pellegrino restaurant but I’m sure many do as evidenced by the difficulty of getting into some of these places and news of reservations filling up for the whole year on the first day they are available.

VivoPerLei

In your opinion, which restaurants should and should not be on the list then?

Lots of discussion on this thread about Joel Robuchon. Atelier in London doesn't seem to be as highly regarded as the others, but I had one of my best meals of last year there.

jologolf212

I don't think the restaurants on there are a joke, just the manner in which the voting is done.

But since you asked, IMHO I like seeing EMP in the top 5. I think the 2 meals I had there last month were just about as good as I've had anywhere else. I think this last meal there was better than Per Se, Daniel, Le Bern, JG, or Brooklyn Fare but I can understand why someone would put any of these other restaurants above it.

Just speaking for NY restaurants I see Momofuku Ssam Bar in the top 100. Its even above Momofuku Ko, DC's top restaurant in NYC. Not sure how Ssam bar can be in the top 100 in the world when people in NYC wouldn't even consider it near the top of places in NYC.

CGRA

EMP At least you have been there twice
I was there once and will not return. EMP in the top 10 is a joke

jologolf212

Ask me 12 months ago, I would agree. Ever since they changed the format, I have nothing but great things to say about it. I have been there at least 5 times within the last 3 years. Had I stopped after 3, I would have agreed wtih you.

Once again, its a matter of personal preference at this level.

Please give me your top 10 so I can tell you how horrible your list is.

Yahillwe

I don't find any of the Momofuku restaurants good and definitely not Ssam...

As for EMP, I have been there a few times.. Even once by special invite when they had the guy from Chicago cooking a special meal... Honestly and I have a dear friend who is a big investor, I don't find it special..Since my friend put in the money, they changed chefs, and maybe that is why you find it better while Cedric still measures it by the old chef.

Haven't eaten at Per Se yet, can't get myself to be seated for so many hours. though I know the chef from LA when he was at Checkers, and he was very good then. Loved the French Laundry when it first started.

chgoeditor

Yahillwe, name the place and I'll meet you for a nice meal! Since I know you haven't been to Chicago yet, maybe Alinea or Next? (I have a Next subscription...) Then maybe we convince Ian to meet us for a drink or two after!

Kagehitokiri

FT could use a dining forum equivalent to luxury hotels forum
although food is different from service

re not just restaurants, but basically anything, there can be between 1 and 3 components >
- owner (freehold/leasehold and private/public)
+
- manager (could be owner, could be a single person, could be a company)
and sometimes +
- brand name (which is either the name of the owner, the company that manages, or another company that the owner/manager pays a license/franchise/brand fee to, in order to use, for marketing purposes)

mosburger

Interesting, sounds even more like something you could experience often in Japan or also Korea.

Obviously you are a regular and could probably have kept those sports shoes on.

But then, around the counter of a French bistro in refined northern Kyoto or the best blowfish restaurant in southwestern Korea you could have experienced the same.

Simple. but at the same time very exceptional food with the best, detailed ingredients and refined techniques. And although the service may seem relaxed by comparison, they do have the skills and experience to run a three star restaurant.

I think in Europe and the US we are still kind of brainwashed into the traditional French model of a gourmet restaurant. The Catalans, Basque people. Spaniards, Italians etc. and especially East Asian nations can add their own cultural tradition to that without diminishing the overall experience.

Yahillwe

Ahhh Chigcago chick... The chef who cooked at EMP.. was the guy from Alinea, a very strange man.

And yes you are correct I haven't been to your city yet (have I told you that??) Would love to go or you could come to NY in Nov, and I will take you to the places that I love to eat at..And yes maybe finally I get to meet Ian.. and maybe Horse would come up as well. . You must know that I love my food..

Yahillwe

I am a regular there..And can always manage to get a place no matter what hr I go..After all, they know that I would come back the next week and the next. But as for the sports shoes... I wouldn't do that, an frankly I should have changed into appropriate clothes, after all one dresses for the place.. (have always said that and would chide people if they didn't). There might be people who would be celebrating an occasion and then comes an idiot dressed like me and would mess it up for them. I do apologize to the couple who were seated next to me..

The best ever pasta I have even eaten, mind you I tend to forget the food and wine that I drank- this is why me remembering the simple pasta is impressive, was in a very small place in the old part of Kyoto...the chef did a special pasta sauce with strawberries.. I have yet to eat a sauce as good as that one..Though a place, very small place here in Paris, this Italian mama made a pasta sauce in front of me.. 2 simple ingredients..Chicken sausage and melon.. of course salt and pepper.. Now that was very very good.. the pasta, she rolled it and cooked it for a couple of minutes while the sauce cooked.. SIMPLE and delicious..

The best food is usually the simplest.. This is why I love the tomato salad at L'atalier..Am really not very keen on traditional french cooking (yes I do live in Paris). The food is slathered in butter and cream.. veggies over cooked.. But, there is a new young breed of chefs who have travelled and experienced new food who aren't afraid to spread their wings and experiment, they making incredible food..So, I haven't given up on french cooking. And I don't mean 3 star places..

The world has moved on.

I have gone OT quit a bit, back to normal programing.

Yahillwe

Don't know if it has already been posted but this is interesting:

http://www.businessinsider.com/miche...hayler-2013-10

chgoeditor

Yeah, Eleven Madison Park and Alinea did a restaurant swap for a week...sounded like an interesting event and I heard reports from a few people who ate at both places during the experiment.

I was at a party at Next and Aviary (Grant Achatz's other places) back in April when they were unveiling their beer collaboration with Evil Twin Brewing. In a room full of people who were clearly adoring fans, he spent much of the night standing alone, a bit awkwardly, in a corner. My friends and I eventually engaged him and I can't remember what we said, but he even brought his girlfriend over to meet us. I think he's probably a bit of the socially awkward genius archetype.

I have reservations for Next's homage to the Bocuse d' Or in late November...if one of my table mates falls through I'd love to have you join us. But otherwise Chicago has so many fantastic restaurants--many serving spectacular food in very down-to-earth settings. You don't have to drop $400 per person on a meal to eat something that's rave-worthy!

Hmm...may have to look at my November calendar! And, you did say you'd never been to Chicago in some thread talking about racism in different parts of the country.