Sorry, I wasn't clear with what I was trying to say - the wine might be exactly the same but my perception of it might differ dramatically from one day to the next. Don't know if that's normal or not, but definitely happens for me.

True up to a point, and certainly true for young wines. However, the more typical tastings of 10+ year old wines (where 2+ bottles of each wine are opened) do often show at least one wine with considerable bottle variation. It is, of course, all traced back to the cork. Whilst the wine will not be corked in the normal sense of the word, you can tell from smelling the corks that one is very different from the other. The point is that the liquid and the glass started off identical and the cork introduced the variation.

I've always been skeptical of the tastes of those who say whilst.

Oh very normal yes. Many factors can influence how we taste wine in different settings. Our own physical condition (including what foods we have eaten recently), the environment, the accompanying food if any, and the wine itself. Wine as a living thing evolves in the bottle and it does go through what can only be described as "dumb periods". I find the more complex the wine the more likely this is to happen. I also see a lot of correlation between this and expected longevity. So much more in a Cab than a Sauv. Blanc for example.

There is bottle variation due to a wine being corked, but not all corked wines are that way because of a bad cork. The TCA is most often transferred to a bottle of wine from a cork tainted with it but it can get in the wine from other sources as well. Not all glass that looks clean actually is. The conditions for bottling are sterile for a reason, but unwanted compounds find their way in from time to time. That said, the average is approximately 3% of all wine bottles being corked. So if you are at a tasting and up to fully half of them (1 of the two or more bottles opened as suggested) are corked, that would be an extraordinarily high level of bad wine and stratospherically above the norm. I have never been to a tasting with that high an incidence of variation. In the absence of TCA any variation in the wine from bottle to bottle (all things being equal) is likely due to variations in storage. This is can be a major cause of variations in the evolution of an older wine.

Lest we forget one detail of those who take a lovely day of Northern California summer wine tasting, drink their "favo(u)rite wines ever," buy them, leave them in the trunk all afternoon, and wonder why they don't taste the same when they get home.

Science - no way ! It's been proven that people's taste buds aren't all geared the same way and we all don't pick up the same flavors the same way. I think it's more like judging a fight. There's a lot of variation. Tasters having to judge so many wines leads to many over the top, high alcohol, fruit bombs, winning awards, because they stand out. This is to the detriment of great, subtle, well balanced, offerings which I would prefer to drink.

Agreed. Not a science at all. But with a standardized systematic approach to tasting, you will see more consistency in analysis of wines than if people are encouraged to taste and use random terms which means something only to them. I have sat in tastings were people disregard entirely the appearance and only briefly comment on aromas and even then from a �what are they� perspective as opposed to including comments on intensity and development.

Not everyone picks up flavors the same way is very true. That is why the guesswork of who tastes how needs to be removed and make the actual identified favor characteristics part of the puzzle as opposed to deciding if they are correct or not. If we add to that such things as flavor intensity, finish, sweetness, tannins, alcohol level, and body and then use all of that to assist us in determining te quality and readiness for drinking, it has been shown very clearly we can get a great deal of global reference benefit out of the process.

High alcohol fruit bombs do win awards in the US a lot, but that trend is waning now too. There are clear movements towards lower alcohol which means picking earlier and having less fruit sugar to play with. Tannins will be rougher with these wines, but they have aging potential and are going to be far more in balance than a lot of the stuff of the past 10-15 years out of Napa.

Too true.

The other factor I see a lot of in the visitors is the "caught up in the moment after a dozen glasses of wine palate". Of course a huge Zin tastes different on its own than after 10 glasses of everything else before getting to that.

Really well stated. When tasting such young wines, what's going to taste good ? The fruit forward ones. Unfortunately, they generally have little aging potential. Except at the very top, there's a lot more $$ making wines that are quickly accessible. No cellaring and waiting for a return on your capital. Remember when you wouldn't even look at a Barolo or Barbaresco for 20 years ?

I notice the trend seems to be wine for now, now, now. And so reds, especially big reds from sunny areas are being made from fruit allowed to hang way past a decent level of acidity. In my opinion it kills the typicity. But many consumers feel differently about it. That said I am seeing a lot more pinot consumption in the US than before and a lot more consumption of young wines from various areas in France and Spain. This all means a tendency to more acid and balance than just fruit. My preference this summer has been Spanish Rose or Austrian Riesling. Both work right out of the gates. I have also started to buy multiple bottles of the same wine and open a bottle a year to see the evolution. There are so many places online these days that are selling cellars wine collections of people that do not we want it r need it anymore that there seems to be an endless supply of almost any vintage if I find that I really like this or that wine after X years. I even found a case or �98 Felix for $70 a bottle this year.

Fair Warning to anyone reading this thread:

Wine collecting can be hazardous to your wallet

the barolo or barbaresco of the 60's and 70's were not the same wines as those of today. they were vinified in a totally different manner. gaja is supposed to be the person that generated the new procedures.

True. I was referring to tastings where there are, say, two bottles each of ten wines. Perhaps every other tasting would yield a sample with substantial bottle variation.

Likewise, I'm suspicious of those who spell sceptical with a k. And more so of those who cannot spell (or smell for wine tasting).

That ratio is in line with the average yes. The problem is the likelihood changes with different wine regions so although an average is 3% , it may well be the case one attends several wine tasting dinners of 10-12 bottles (I typically go to 3-4 a month) and not encounter a corked bottle for months. This has been my experience. Of course now that I type that Murphy's Law dictates my next bottle is corked

Having owned bars & restaurants, I got about 1/24 sent back as 'corked'. Some of them were actually fine, but I believe the % of corked wines to be much higher. I think 2/3 of corked wines get consumed. I've always felt that just a little TCA can remove everything charming or interesting about a wine without detecting the 'wet dog' or 'wet cardboard' smell that would cause someone to send it back. I just read something on this in WS. Here ya go:http://www.winespectator.com/blogs/show/id/48946

Interesting. I love hearing from the ITB folks as they can cast a real bit of light on what we read in the press. Thanks.

I do not know that it is that high though, and rather suspect it is not, but then again we have to agree a definition of corked too. If the test is consumers taken as a whole and then use a cross section I think 3% is likely a little high even. But if we use professionals and labs as the basis for establishing taint, then I suspect 1/24 may be a lot closer. In any case it is a great data point.

The thing I find irritating is that many times when I detect TCA and mention it and expect appropriate action like replacing the bottle (at a restaurant) I often get blank stares from the waiter. It is unfortunately the case that waiters/waitresses and even many "pinned" pros at restaurants have mot the palate or the understanding to detect flaws.

And with the trend towards organic wines I am finding the staff not agreeing with somewhat more frequency.