Heh. When it opened on the corner of Cedar and Shattuck? Long before Saul's and Poulet. But a baby compared to Virginia Bakery. Grew up in Berkeley at the same time and tend to agree with your position.

Here is a question, I note you live in Brooklyn. How does Arinell's compare to the great stuff out there?

Mike

My vote is for Peter Lugers' in NYC.

Supposed to be fancy, definitely high priced, but decidedly uncomfortable, noisy and with only average steaks.

I remember Virginia Bakery. I believe it closed down, no?

Pizza is a very regional and perhaps even personal item.

First, there is a lot of horrendous pizza in NY. Most slices joints here are simply disgusting. But there are a few really outstanding examples of what is known as NY pizza (DiFara's, Totonno's, Pala, and then a step down Grimaldi's, Lombardi's and even John's).

IMHO Arinell's does not compare, but then again I think it is fair to say it is a slightly different idea of pizza, even if it bills itself as NY pizza.

My favorite pizza in the United States is New Haven pizza, especially the incomparable Pepe's.

My favorite pizza in Berkeley is at the Cheese Board, although what I really love there is their incredibly unique baguette with some great cheese...

I will agree that Peter Luger's is overrated but I have never heard anyone claim that it is fancy.

Peter Luger's has always been honest about billing itself as an old-school roadhouse, with its wood benches and communal tables.

It's all about the steak, which can be quite good, but are definitely expensive and can be inconsistent.

The cash-only policy for such an expensive restaurant is also annoying.

Agreed - they don't try to be fancy and certainly are not. In fact, for that reason as well as being located in Brooklyn and being cash (or PL credit) only, I prefer Wolfgangs or Ben and Jacks.

If I'm going to spend $75-100 for food, plus whatever else for drinks, I at least want to be in a "nice" restaurant with decent service.

Agree. Cafe Patachou is an exception. Not fancy but great breakfast at a fair price. I have had some good meals at Dunaway's - but inconsistent.

St. Elmo's has to be one of the worst offenders of overpriced/crap food. Lived in Indy for 10 years - sad that this is the "institutional" restaurant of Indy.

Midwest cooking - home and in restaurants is typically awful, underseasoned food. It's like they forget about salt and pepper completely.

Another vote for Chez Panisse

I'm probably going to be the only one to say this, but In-N-Out burgers are over rated, service is magnificent, but the food isn't too different and is a little under par compared to some places.

Sure I agree it can be prepared well, and my preferred means is as fajita. However, the way it has been served to me twice in Europe = shoe leather, which is a terrible prep method.

Among new-ish restaurants here in NY, I have to nominate DBGB as over-rated. Service was excellent, food was OK but very overpriced.

Everyone I've ever known who ate at Tavern on the Green came away disappointed, and I've lived here 11 years.

Most over-rated steakhouse in NYC is Ben Benson's - poor service, mediocre food, Midtown-expense-account prices. Another over-rated Midtown place is Cite. My favourite Manhattan steakhouse is actually Craftsteak, although I prefer the Las Vegas location. Wolfgangs and Sparks are also good, although Sparks can be quite loud and I liked it better before Nanny Bloomberg killed off the cigar menu...best cigar I ever had was an Opus X downstairs at Sparks. Of course, it was on expense account so that helped!

The only Ruth's Chris I've ever been to is in Manhattan, so it's possible this location is run to a higher standard because of all the competition, but I've always been happy with it, both for the food and the service. Of course, I've only gone for lunch, and they frequently have (or had, I stopped working in Midtown a few years ago) some very nice lunch specials that are really good value for money. Stupid, annoying name, though.

As for JohnnySegal - you speak blasphemy, sir! Yes, there are better burgers, sure (Fatburger, for one), but not at those prices!

And as for the American-palate issue, I'll just say that I've never had a decent steak in Europe. I've had many great meals in Europe, particularly in Barcelona, but every time I've ordered steak I've come away disappointed.

Beef varies by country in Europe (a little less so than in the pre-EU days).

It is possible to have excellent beef in Europe, especially in France. Keep in mind the cuts and the preparation are a little different.

For one thing, the French don't age their beef the way we do in the U,S., so their beef is a little less pungent.

But an excellent Charolais beef is among the best steaks in the world, ranging from the filet mignon, to the Chateaubriand, to the faux-filet, to the entrecote.

Paris has a half dozen outstanding steakhouses. Here is an article written by Mark Bittman in the NY Times in 2007. My personal favorite is Le Relais de Venise. It's very French but it's just a streakhouse:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/04/29.../29Choice.html

????????????
like to see other comments about charolias. i only had it once. a steak of some sort in either a michelin 2 or 3* somewhere south of burgundy. was sort of like range fed longhorn, but with less taste and a whole lot tougher. i do not know what cut, but it was supposed to be special, and it certainly cost special.

Charolais is a breed (the cattle are all white) and there is better Charolais and more pedestrian Charolais, just like you have better and worse Angus, for example.

The best Charolais is comparable to the best U.S. prime beef in terms of tenderness. The flavor is excellent but different because the French don't age their beef the way Americans do, so it isn't quite as pungent.

The Charolais is a region of France, named for the town of Charolles, in the Burgundy region.

The best Charolais I have ever had was at Bernard L'Oiseau, one of the best restaurants in the Burgundy region. But there are a number of excellent steakhouses in Paris that specialize in Charolais.

We also have Charolais in North America, especially Canada, but I have always found the French breeds tastier.

Haven't eaten in Nobu, but my friends give it very good reviews, and I enjoyed Nobu Next Door in NYC. That said, neither I nor they were paying....

My vote goes to Joel Robuchon MGM Las Vegas. Absolutely, utterly horrible. I still can't bring myself to try L'Atelier in London as a result.

Colm