I'm not going to disagree with you on the Restaurant, but the Cafe is decent.

Have you looked at the menu recently? There is more than just pizzetta and salad. http://www.chezpanisse.com/menus/cafe-menu/ I wouldn't go to Chez Panisse Cafe to eat pizzetta and their salads anyways.

I will say this about Chez Panisse Restaurant and Cafe, their food is not stylish or avant garde anymore and the prices are up there, but they still produce good tasting simple Californian cuisine. I haven't had great meals at the Restaurant or Cafe, but I've had good meals.

There are a lot of bashers of Chez Panisse, and I sometimes join in, but there are a TON of restaurants which try to duplicate Chez Panisse and fail IMHO.

I was in the cafe in January. Funny thing, as much as I dislike their pizzas, I prefer them to the entrees, which I find bland, bland, bland.

I grew up in Berkeley in the 70's and I remember my mother taking me to Chez Panisse back then. Although I was just a teenager, I found it just as bland and as unremarkable as today.

Alice Waters was a pioneer, no doubt, but her restaurant was never exceptional.

Were it not for the association with Alice Waters, Chez Panisse would have been little more than a footnote in the annals of American gastronomy.

Take any of the dishes you can eat at Chez Panisse, and put them in another context, say the American Restaurant in Kansas City, and you would be disappointed with the preparation.

As it is, Chez Panisse is really not so different than those creole New Orleans legacy restaurants (Antoine's, Arnaud's, Galatoire's). The food isn't great in any of those places either.

But just like you go to Antoine's to pay homage to a food movement, you go to Chez Panisse for the same reason. The only difference is the culinary revolution you're paying tribute to took place in the 1970's, not in the 1860's.

It's a temple and a shrine, but as a restaurant it is middling at its very best.

P.S.: Pizza is far better across the street at the Cheese Board annex

I take personal offense to this. Maybe I like a well aged, plain "lump" of steak with a shrimp cocktail appetizer and a piece of chocolate cake for dessert. Perhaps I enjoy being able to select my sides based on how I feel when I walk in.

Guess I'm from a young country with lots of money, but not nearly as cultured as someone from Europe.

There are plenty of essentially similar (and highly-rated) restaurants in so-called sophisticated and cultured countries.

One of Paris's most popular restaurants is Le Relais de Venise, which serves only one meal (salad with walnuts and vinaigrette and steak frites with a special sauce).

Frankly, that's not substantially different from any American steakhouse, except there is far less to choose from on the menu.

And, btw, I love Le Relais de Venise, and a good American steakhouse, which can be a fabulous dining experience.

I agree with you, but also I have eaten in Europe a number of times, sure I got LOTS of plates of bite sized food, but by the time the steak came they were giving out flank steaks as some prime cut, that doesn't pass muster for me.
Flank steaks are for making a mean fajita, not for eating as a well done shoe leather.

Yes, each dish came with a nice wine, and some interesting flavors meshed into some of them (I liked the grapefruit infused champagne at one place), and it is different there, but each has its advantages and disadvantages.

My post was meant to be sarcastic, in response to the one I quoted. Main point was, I disagreed with the post that steakhouse lovers (especially Americans) are automatically unsophisticated.

I knew what you meant

And what I disagreed with was the preposterous notion, albeit prevalent, that Europeans are somehow immune to enjoying simpler foods such as steak and fries.

The fact is, most middle-class working-class Europeans eat a very basic, hearty diet, heavy in meats and fat.

A small portion of the elite have the resources to indulge in sophisticated haute cuisine, but, the same is true of the American elite.

A couple of legendary "Hollywood" restaurants come to mind:
1. Musso and Frank's. Pick up any book on Hollywood, any old or contemporary cop novel, books about old time journalists, and inevitably, there will be someone rolling his eyes about the great martinis and grill food at Musso and Frank's in Hollywood. I have been there many times, but, to be fair, have only gone for lunch, thus never had a legendary Musso martini. Food was always mediocre, even the "legendary" flannel cakes. I find the ambiance pretty depressing. It is of another era and has not held up well.
2. The Polo Lounge at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Nothing special here. Have never understood the hype. The last time I was there, about 2 years ago, I met a friend for lunch. I ordered the McCarthy salad (run-of-the-mill-chopped salad). This was chopped to the consistency of baby food. I think it was designed for patrons who eat salad with a spoon. I asked waiter if I could possibly have a salad with a little more "form." He said I had to request that the chopped McCarthy Salad not be chopped.

Yes, these might be legendary joints, but neither is especially highly rated.

Frank & Musso's gets a 19 in the Zagat's and The Polo Lounge a 23.

In the meantime Chez Panisse, in Berkeley, receives a preposterous 28, a restaurant where even the most ardent fans recognize that the food is virtually tasteless and the best dish is the mesclun salad.

+1 on Nobu (at least the one in Miami). Overpriced, mediocre food and an attitude that is just awful. Took my credit card in advance for our party of 7. 6 of us arrived on time and they wouldn't seat us until the 7th showed up- the problem was that he got into an accident on the way. They made us sit in the lobby for almost an hour with an open table. They will never see another dime from me.

I once (only time I ever bothered to go) asked if they had any grass-fed beef. They scoffed at me - "no sir, all of our beef is grain fed." Great. These guys are really knowledgeable.

And, yeah, for those of us who like steak rare, a 500 degree plate is idiotic.

How did this place ever get popular? They just invented some schtick and people bought it?

Re: French Laundry, I'd have to agree. Pretty amazing. Not just the food - the whole experience. I've probably had better food other times, but the complete package was a great evening.

This is simple. Greens in S.F. Over spiced, over priced, over rated.

Why is it that the most overrated restaurants seem to come with the most attitude and sense of entitlement. They make you feel as if you're so fortunate to even be tasting their dreck.

I disagree. It's all in the preparation. I've had transcendent flank and hangar steak.