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When is a delayed response crossing the reasonable line?

When is a delayed response crossing the reasonable line?

 
Old Sep 17, 09, 2:40 pm
  #1  
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When is a delayed response crossing the reasonable line?

Well, I just wanted to check that the fact that I am concerned with DL delayed response is within reason.

1. I had one of the worst ever flights on July 2,2009 on board DL/AF. (For details, PM me. Short version: As a paid J pax I was assigned a seat that AF has a rule that is not assigned to paid pax. Period. I have it documented. It was just the beginning of a terrible flight*, again- for details PM me)
2. I have reported the flight immidately to DL (July 3, Paris). I filed a report in writing at once.
3. I called on 7/11 asking why I got no response, DL medallion desk claimed it was lost to IT glich, found it and re-routed to review.
4. DL denied that I was provided sub-optimal service, but posted '20,000' good will skymiles.
5. From 7/12 to 8/17 I had 11 (yes, eleven) email exchanges with the medallion desk. I requested a full one-way refund (given the extensive documentation of the failures). I eventually was 'exhausted' to 'death' by the CS. I agreed to receive $200 refund and an apology letter, in lieu of the 'good will' mileage.
The mileage were deducted from my account within minutes (!) of agreement. I am still waiting for the refund and apology letter.
5. I sent a reminder that I got non of them on Sep. 9 (Communication #12)
6. Got a reply that they posted a second request to process it.
7. As of Sep. 15, nothing happened. I sent a second reminder (Communication #13). No reply provided. No refund as well.
8. I sent a third reminder today. I did get an auto-reply (from NW/KLM) that the email was accepted and will be answered in four business days.

I just wanted to make sure whether most fellows would agree with me that a delay of more than 30 days on a written obligation for refund, and a delay of 45 days agreeing for compensation(**) on the failure is not in line with a near-decent customer service.

I sometimes think that it's possible I over-react for that. Yes, the time it took me to communicate the case to DL far exceeds the value of the refund. But, it is a matter of principle. We all (OK, I do, at least) give credit to DL staff members when credit is appropriate. For those letters, I get a reply within hours.

Then, my question is- why is it that once a solution was finalized, it takes more than 30 days to take place (and pending)? What about some 'good will' for regular clients? (OK, I just fly only 100K-150K miles a year... what would it take to get replies within reasonable time, 200K?)

DLroads


(*It was the first time ever I had to take a day and half to recover from a flight... I had better flight experience in a middle, 'downtown' coach seat)
(** At some point, even my time is more valuable. I must say, though, that this flight was the first time ever I contacted the credit card company and checked the option to hold a payment from DL)
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Old Sep 17, 09, 2:43 pm
  #2  
 
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Confused about the paid J "poor seat" and I'm sure that others are....

However, 2 months without a resolution is unacceptable.
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Old Sep 17, 09, 3:09 pm
  #3  
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Sorry, clarification

Originally Posted by WBurcham View Post
Confused about the paid J "poor seat" and I'm sure that others are....
.
It turns out (learned the hard way) that on AF metal, 777 (the ones that also have FC) there are seats in J that have few known structural and techincal problems.
To be specific, mine was 5B:
-Just on the crossline between the service closet (right side, 80-100 cm), opened and closed about once every 30 minutes during the flight (I can assure that)
-the rest room enterance door (with a problematic 'smell' for the flight,)- when you put the set down for sleeping your legs would actually touch the restroom door),
- the service area curtain (That the FA do not make sure to close, at all),
-the service cart storage (It will 'hit the chair' because they have to 'twick' it a bit to enter the aisle, and exit the aisle)
-the serivce area for FA announcement is just in front of this seat (across from the bathroom, and they can- and do make noise during the flight)
-and well, fellow pax would gather and wait for restroom, bar or chatting, just in front of this chair.

Once I boarded, I looked around and it was clear that nothing good can come out of this seating. It is almost as if that was a space with no seat, and it was added later (to add revenue)

As 'troubles' were 'piling' during the flight, and so did my surprise level, I talked with a fellow passenger (seating on the second worst seat.) Turned out to be a nice gentlemen, AF PM that got an op-up.
He was surprised to hear that I paid for the seat. A short informal chat, and he gave me the more 'detailed' explanation: the seat I was in (5B), along with few other seats are ones that AF agents get guidelines not to assign to paid AF J pax. He actually listed them for me, explained ther reasons, and I went up from my seat and checked them one by one and verified that all the 'defects' he specified are there. If anyone wants the full list, I would gladly look in my notes and email them (but you can get by induction that the next one is 5K). So, in other words, he gently informed me that as a DL J pax I was 'mistreaterd'.
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Old Sep 17, 09, 3:43 pm
  #4  
 
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I do not mean to sound disrespectful, BUT:

If you follow your logic in regards to an unacceptable seat, I should be getting a refund and apology letter every time I sit in a centre seat, or in the
back few rows of an MD88?
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Old Sep 17, 09, 4:56 pm
  #5  
 
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Originally Posted by DLroads View Post
It turns out (learned the hard way) that on AF metal, 777 (the ones that also have FC) there are seats in J that have few known structural and techincal problems.
To be specific, mine was 5B:
-Just on the crossline between the service closet (right side, 80-100 cm), opened and closed about once every 30 minutes during the flight (I can assure that)
-the rest room enterance door (with a problematic 'smell' for the flight,)- when you put the set down for sleeping your legs would actually touch the restroom door),
- the service area curtain (That the FA do not make sure to close, at all),
-the service cart storage (It will 'hit the chair' because they have to 'twick' it a bit to enter the aisle, and exit the aisle)
-the serivce area for FA announcement is just in front of this seat (across from the bathroom, and they can- and do make noise during the flight)
-and well, fellow pax would gather and wait for restroom, bar or chatting, just in front of this chair.

Once I boarded, I looked around and it was clear that nothing good can come out of this seating. It is almost as if that was a space with no seat, and it was added later (to add revenue)

As 'troubles' were 'piling' during the flight, and so did my surprise level, I talked with a fellow passenger (seating on the second worst seat.) Turned out to be a nice gentlemen, AF PM that got an op-up.
He was surprised to hear that I paid for the seat. A short informal chat, and he gave me the more 'detailed' explanation: the seat I was in (5B), along with few other seats are ones that AF agents get guidelines not to assign to paid AF J pax. He actually listed them for me, explained ther reasons, and I went up from my seat and checked them one by one and verified that all the 'defects' he specified are there. If anyone wants the full list, I would gladly look in my notes and email them (but you can get by induction that the next one is 5K). So, in other words, he gently informed me that as a DL J pax I was 'mistreaterd'.
Thanks for the followup, interesting to note the seat information. I would followup with AF, the operating airline, and figure out why you were assigned that and your experience....
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Old Sep 17, 09, 5:24 pm
  #6  
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I will answer #5 and #4 here

For #5
"Thanks for the followup, interesting to note the seat information. I would followup with AF, the operating airline, and figure out why you were assigned that and your experience...."

I did. To say that the response was far from content oriented and sufficient would be an understatement.

For #4:

"I do not mean to sound disrespectful, BUT:

If you follow your logic in regards to an unacceptable seat, I should be getting a refund and apology letter every time I sit in a centre seat, or in the
back few rows of an MD88?"


The question is absolutely legitimate. If one is assigned Y seat, and get a middle Y seat, no- they do not have any reason to get apology letter and refund. If there was a policy regarding medallions never assigned a middle seat, it would have been a case. But, even for CO the policy is just mileage bonus in such cases.

The ticket was a paid J. There are clear evidence that the service did not meet the definition of J, or even Y for this matter. There are evidence that it is also due to well known problems on board. AF guides its staff to protect AF FF from these cases. It does not guide DL to protect its FF as well. As a matter of fact, AF never shared this info with DL.

For that alone, a refund and an apology are in my opinion the very very very minimum. But, my posting was related to the delayed in responding and delivering on a written obligation: 45 days to reach an "agreed" solution, and more than 30 days to fail to deliver it are not appropriate.

I doubt that anyone would dispute this case, but I wanted to get a more general perception of what is an appropriate response time. That was the reason for the post.

I was happy to provide answers to the additional questions, though. And, I never thought that the question was rude, though... (It was a legit one)

Last edited by DLroads; Sep 17, 09 at 5:27 pm Reason: numbers #5 and #4, not #4 and #3
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Old Sep 17, 09, 5:30 pm
  #7  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingForEternity View Post
I do not mean to sound disrespectful, BUT:

If you follow your logic in regards to an unacceptable seat, I should be getting a refund and apology letter every time I sit in a centre seat, or in the
back few rows of an MD88?
It doesn't sound the same to me. Sounds like the biz class seat has such a long list of shortcomings that it is inappropriate for a paid biz class pax. But rather than remove it they will plop an upgraded pax there no problem.
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Old Sep 22, 09, 11:28 am
  #8  
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Still delayed

Originally Posted by Evan! View Post
But rather than remove it they will plop an upgraded pax there no problem.
That is correct,

As of this morning, I got another template apology, and 10,000 'skypiles' (I am sorry, I can't believe I call them this way, but that's the first time ever I used this expression in writing... I just had enough.)

I have been delayed proper refund (That was assured in writing) for more than 45 days.

If anyone in Delta is looking into this forum and sees this posting, please PM me, and try pulling some strings to get it solved as promised. And on the side note that would give you the incentive:

After 124,000 MQM with delta this year my partner forced me to fly with her on AA for a weekend. The flight metal is the biggest arguments in our relationship (Luckly, the only big one... the rest has to do with more cake or more chocolate- I am in favor of more chocolate.) That is a big concerning sign (that I agreed)
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Old Sep 22, 09, 12:29 pm
  #9  
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DL isn't responsible for the operating perfromance of an AF flight, irrespective of ticket issue or code share. A proper response from DL would have told the OP to take it up with AF immediately - and nothing further from DL. Good luck with AF.
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Old Sep 22, 09, 1:08 pm
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This should be moved to the AF forum.
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Old Sep 22, 09, 1:14 pm
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As others have said, you should followup with AF as it was their flight. DL has thrown 10,000 miles your way, but not sure what else you want them to do.

While I would be quite bothered to have such a poor seat on an expensive ticket, this would be akin to seeking compensation for sitting in the first row of F on an MD-88, where the Lav is directly across from you.

I would suggest asking around the AF forum, but really I doubt you will get any further compensation from either DL or AF.
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Old Sep 22, 09, 1:17 pm
  #12  
 
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If there are certain seats that AF doesn't allocate to "paying" (vs. award ticket) customers, then, when they allow other codeshare airlines to give out seats, it is incumbent upon AF to keep those seats from being used per their reasoning. How the heck is DL supposed to know this if AF hasn't done their work? As far as DL is concerned, a J seat is a J seat unless otherwise notifed. Your real beef is with AF.
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Old Sep 22, 09, 4:35 pm
  #13  
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Responses

Originally Posted by zman View Post
This should be moved to the AF forum.
and " If there are certain seats that AF doesn't allocate to "paying" (vs. award ticket) customers, then, when they allow other codeshare airlines to give out seats, it is incumbent upon AF to keep those seats from being used per their reasoning. How the heck is DL supposed to know this if AF hasn't done their work? As far as DL is concerned, a J seat is a J seat unless otherwise notifed. Your real beef is with AF"



I disagree. DL is in revenue sharing contract with AF on CDG-JFK service. There is no alternative if you wish to be on DL metal for this line. DL gets the revenue, thus it also carries the responsibility.

In addition, DL never disputed its responsibility for the case. It is documented, and in great detailed. DL should be in access to the same data and knowledge regarding seat assignments that is available to AF. If they do not, that is still a DL problem. If DL claims that AF hurts their reputation on this matter, they can act against AF (And they should.) In this very specific case, the circumstances were so unusual and documented that DL requested (and that's a very rare step, in my very basic knowledge of the practice) a disciplinary action against FA on board the very specific flight. If DL found the concerns raised so serious that it elected to initiate disciplinary actions against its own partner, it should also backup their own clients.

I hold DL responsible because it came to my attention that the concerns were raised and presented to DL/AF in the past. Not once, not twice, and not three times. This problem was one that DL was aware of.

I hold it as a DL problem, because DL agreed for a solution (to be more correct, exhausted the client to agree to a compromise,) in writing, and then failed to deliver on its own obligations.

And, I hold it as a DL responsibility because the ticket was naturally bought from DL under the contract of carriage of DL, and under the relevant rules, that were not met (for BE service.)

For one and all of the reasons above, it is pure DL responsibility case.
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Old Sep 22, 09, 6:00 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by DLroads View Post
I disagree.
I do too....using the opposing argument is like saying "Hilton doesn't have to enforce their standards on franchises because they dont operate them, if you wanna complain about a franchise go talk to them, we only handle hilton managed hotel complains"...the flight was marketed and sold through DL it's DL's responsibility to address the issue....(not saying I do or dont agree with the OP)
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Old Sep 22, 09, 8:45 pm
  #15  
 
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Seat Guru is your friend..."though the proximity of the lavatory can be bothersome"

Anything you get out of DL is a bonus - AF are the guilty party. Quick tip on complaining, know what you want before you complain, it makes management of expectations easier on all sides.
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