Are DL Platinum Medallions losing award fee exemption benefit?
Feb 8, 2009, 2:26 pm
#676
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I believe that, at least currently, everyone gets that back when awards are canceled because that fee is collected as part of the tax collection.
Feb 8, 2009, 2:31 pm
#677
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I see this as a result of CO aligning its award ticket policies with those of UA. It's a good thing, if for no other reason that providing some reassurance that UA will probably continue with free date/time changes.
Feb 8, 2009, 5:04 pm
#678
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These are much more logical changes on the part of CO. They treat all their members with a bit more respect, and don't punish that member for changes when better award inventory becomes available.
Jun 9, 2010, 2:10 pm
#679
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Programs: DL GM, WN AL/CP, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
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As I'm reading through the various posts around the Platinum Medallion fee waiver for award ticket changes and redeposits of miles, I wanted to chime in with what will happen, when and why the change:
There are some changes coming this year that we intend to announce as part of the consolidated loyalty program, the significant majority of which will be positive for customers. We have committed that during this consolidation we will retain many positive attributes of our two programs and we are not shying away from this. With this said, there will be a couple of items that we need to align or change to the negative for WorldPerks and SkyMiles customers. We’ve already announced some increases to the WorldPerks fee structure and an adjustment to the bonus miles awarded to WorldPerks Platinum and Silver Elites to align with Delta Platinum and Silver Medallions. We are also in the process of communicating what I believe will be one of the biggest negative changes for Delta Platinum Medallions – that being the elimination of the waiver around award ticket changes and redeposits. We have reviewed this waiver policy at length and have studied data inside/out around what the policy is creating in terms of award seat issuances, no shows, cancellations and other customer behaviors. Unfortunately, almost 10% of ticketed award seats by Platinum Medallions are no-shows on flights, and then after the seat goes out unused, we are giving customers their miles back without charge. On top of this, Platinums are taking and canceling award seats at alarming rates far greater than other Medallions, which is likely driven by this waiver policy. Given the number of award seats issued to Platinum Medallions, and what is better access to award seats that Platinums have, many thousands of award seats are being taken, held, and then go out unused without other customers having the opportunity to access them. The result is that we needed to institute a fee for this activity, and not continue to waive it. It is disappointing that this policy needed to be reviewed and it’s not a change that we wanted to make, however it was one that we felt necessary at this time. The timing for this waiver change will be March 1, 2009.
There are some changes coming this year that we intend to announce as part of the consolidated loyalty program, the significant majority of which will be positive for customers. We have committed that during this consolidation we will retain many positive attributes of our two programs and we are not shying away from this. With this said, there will be a couple of items that we need to align or change to the negative for WorldPerks and SkyMiles customers. We’ve already announced some increases to the WorldPerks fee structure and an adjustment to the bonus miles awarded to WorldPerks Platinum and Silver Elites to align with Delta Platinum and Silver Medallions. We are also in the process of communicating what I believe will be one of the biggest negative changes for Delta Platinum Medallions – that being the elimination of the waiver around award ticket changes and redeposits. We have reviewed this waiver policy at length and have studied data inside/out around what the policy is creating in terms of award seat issuances, no shows, cancellations and other customer behaviors. Unfortunately, almost 10% of ticketed award seats by Platinum Medallions are no-shows on flights, and then after the seat goes out unused, we are giving customers their miles back without charge. On top of this, Platinums are taking and canceling award seats at alarming rates far greater than other Medallions, which is likely driven by this waiver policy. Given the number of award seats issued to Platinum Medallions, and what is better access to award seats that Platinums have, many thousands of award seats are being taken, held, and then go out unused without other customers having the opportunity to access them. The result is that we needed to institute a fee for this activity, and not continue to waive it. It is disappointing that this policy needed to be reviewed and it’s not a change that we wanted to make, however it was one that we felt necessary at this time. The timing for this waiver change will be March 1, 2009.
- WN is profitable, and allows no-shows.
- WN is profitable, and allows award redeposits without a fee.
- WN is profitable, and allows award changes without a fee.
WN's lack of international awards, F cabins, lounges, etc. is irrelevant to the facts above -- those who use those perks pay through the nose for them; they are not money pits for Delta and other legacies.
Maybe the above attitude is *a contributing factor* to WN's profitability? @:-)
Jun 9, 2010, 2:34 pm
#680
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I've said it before and will say it again: this is complete bunk.
WN's lack of international awards, F cabins, lounges, etc. is irrelevant to the facts above -- those who use those perks pay through the nose for them; they are not money pits for Delta and other legacies.
Maybe the above attitude is *a contributing factor* to WN's profitability? @:-)
- WN is profitable, and allows no-shows.
- WN is profitable, and allows award redeposits without a fee.
- WN is profitable, and allows award changes without a fee.
WN's lack of international awards, F cabins, lounges, etc. is irrelevant to the facts above -- those who use those perks pay through the nose for them; they are not money pits for Delta and other legacies.
Maybe the above attitude is *a contributing factor* to WN's profitability? @:-)
Also, doesn't Delta generate about three times the revenue and about twice the profits of WN (based upon 2010 and 2011 estimates, not backwards-looking)?
Jun 9, 2010, 2:59 pm
#681
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WN caters to an entirely different type of customer, routes, etc. Also, back out some luck with hedging (which are simply bets that worked out for them), and their profits are much more in line with the rest of the industry.
Also, doesn't Delta generate about three times the revenue and about twice the profits of WN (based upon 2010 and 2011 estimates, not backwards-looking)?
Also, doesn't Delta generate about three times the revenue and about twice the profits of WN (based upon 2010 and 2011 estimates, not backwards-looking)?
DL is a beneficiary of government protection and handouts in a way that has never been the case with WN.
DL has repeatedly wiped out its investors, creditors, and other stakeholders (including customers) in a way that has not been the case with WN. A few quarters (or years) of future reported profits won't invalidate DL's historical failure and continued reliance upon government protection and handouts in a way that is not evident with WN.
DL management's backtracking on this changes goes toward showing that that DL management has a history of being morally and/or intellectually bankrupt when it comes to dealing with SkyMiles customers.
Jun 9, 2010, 4:18 pm
#682
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DL has a history of being bankrupt, financially and otherwise, in a way that is not evident with WN.
DL is a beneficiary of government protection and handouts in a way that has never been the case with WN.
DL has repeatedly wiped out its investors, creditors, and other stakeholders (including customers) in a way that has not been the case with WN. A few quarters (or years) of future reported profits won't invalidate DL's historical failure and continued reliance upon government protection and handouts in a way that is not evident with WN.
DL management's backtracking on this changes goes toward showing that that DL management has a history of being morally and/or intellectually bankrupt when it comes to dealing with SkyMiles customers.
DL is a beneficiary of government protection and handouts in a way that has never been the case with WN.
DL has repeatedly wiped out its investors, creditors, and other stakeholders (including customers) in a way that has not been the case with WN. A few quarters (or years) of future reported profits won't invalidate DL's historical failure and continued reliance upon government protection and handouts in a way that is not evident with WN.
DL management's backtracking on this changes goes toward showing that that DL management has a history of being morally and/or intellectually bankrupt when it comes to dealing with SkyMiles customers.
Jun 9, 2010, 4:24 pm
#683
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As noted in my post, I'm referring to the current state of the airlines and forward. You may look to the past for lessons, but any link between current policies and profits will affect current and future earnings - not the past. Delta *and several other majors* have had flawed business models for a many years, resulting in government bailouts and bankruptcies (which I'm opposed to, btw), but the forward-looking forecasts predict that Delta's revenues and profits will be *much* more substantial than WNs, at least for the next couple of years. If you think investors are wrong about this, buy WN and short DL immediately... you could make a lot of money!
Jun 9, 2010, 6:21 pm
#684
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I wouldn't have, and didn't, purchase Delta stock in past years. I did, however, change my tune early last year because I liked what I was seeing, especially relative to the merger and also in the context of the overall market valuation. Management evolves, models evolve, the market evolves. I've been correct so far, and when and if my opinion changes, I'll sell. In other words, I put my money where my mouth is. If you have confidence that your opinion is more accurate (even slightly - it doesn't take much of a knowledge spread versus common perception to profit), I suggest you act upon it too.
Jun 10, 2010, 12:05 am
#685
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: DL GM, WN AL/CP, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
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WN caters to an entirely different type of customer, routes, etc. Also, back out some luck with hedging (which are simply bets that worked out for them), and their profits are much more in line with the rest of the industry.
Also, doesn't Delta generate about three times the revenue and about twice the profits of WN (based upon 2010 and 2011 estimates, not backwards-looking)?
Also, doesn't Delta generate about three times the revenue and about twice the profits of WN (based upon 2010 and 2011 estimates, not backwards-looking)?