777-232LR

Kind of how losers understand that it isn't winning what matters, or how the underprivileged understand that it isn't money that matters... right?

Back on topic: you guys can speak of Spiffing DL now, but what happens when/if other majors follow suit? There's a good chance CO and NW will if they're granted any sort of serious cooperation with DL. Who knows what the heck US and UA are going to do.

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Smile.... your mother could have placed you in an A340!

[This message has been edited by 777-232LR (edited 12-11-2002).]

GUWonder

These changes seem almost perfectly targeted at me to make Delta marginally more attractive in 2003 than in 2002.

Customer-types, like me -- who fly only on the Delta Shuttle on a negotiated Y rate (that is fully refundable) and is nearly as good as the lowest, most restricted weekend fares -- stand to benefit. The Skymiles upgrades were useless for me since I would never fly Delta domestically and play an expensive upgrade lottery and suffer Less Room to Coach when not fortunate. The 1.5x MQMs on my shuttle flights (especially if they keep the 3 base miles promotion) will benefit me. My upgrades can now be worth something on cheap fares domestically, or I can (and probably will) now convert 1 500-miler for 1250 Skymiles (4 for 5000). [Note: Maybe American and United will again make their upgrades redeemable for something more meaningful like 1250-2500/miles per upgrade too.]

What this basically means for customer types like me is that I can stick to the Delta Shuttle and keep getting, or more easily get, to the respective medallion tier status, and actually redeem my upgrades on occassion, as I would only fly Delta domestically for leisure (i.e., cheap fares). This is an improvement for the corporate, Delta-only-for-the-shuttle passengers.

The Skymiles changes won't alter my behavior yet, but I have already planned on switching my shuttle flights to USAir to add to my UA MileagePlus program [although I am watching the bankruptcy closely]. Delta is still not attractive to me domestically, and I have yet to see why should they get my international business travel if I get treated terribly when flying on leisure in light of costly fares to enter the upgrade lottery, no shower access at lounges on leisure trips, expensive upgrades, etc.

jimpop

How many people will now move to a different forum? Please.

jimpop

I dunno about those, but I will accept your experience as valid fact until I get the chance to experience the same.

jimpop

It wasn't your long or your loud that changed the policy... it was your sensibility.

goldmedallionflyer

If all of the other majors follow suit, then I would suspect that many people will be doing what we did before deregulation - fly the most convenient route with the best service and comfort. For me, it would mean that I would fly AA when it was more convenient than UA or DL.

GMF

GUWonder

That is why running for more than lifetime Gold status on AA made such good sense. If I can score lifetime Platinum by 2003 year-end, that is good too. 2 million miles for limetime mid-tier on Delta-- all of which is in the seat??? - I think not!!! I don't plan to keep travelling 300k miles a year for the next 10+ years.. and especially not just on Delta.

When customers are not there, you have to entice them to fly. The airlines should try something innovative like the hotel's faster free nights promotions, but make the free tickets capacity controlled whose nominal published fare cannot be higher than the average fare of the previous two purchased. Two trips = one free trip. My advertising slogan would be "Faster Free Trips" or "Faster Free Flights".

Trust me, this would fill up the planes and maybe even get passengers to play games and get higher priced business tickets just to get a few free (otherwise not too cheap) leisure trips.

goldmedallionflyer

Since I will only be earning 4 500-mile upgrades per 10,000 miles flown, there will definitely be NO companion upgrading for this once loyal customer.

Since base miles are out the door, what will it matter. Mileage flown will only count towards free tickets and such, not for status. Status miles are now based on (miles flown x fare multiplier), not base miles.

Maybe you haven't recognized just how drastic the benefits have been slashed for the most top tier fliers? Instead of buying an guaranteed upgradable ticket 330 days in advance on a K fare, I will now only have a 100 hour window. Quite a lot like UAL which has their E+ seating for those flights where the U/G doesn't clear. If DL had a comparable coach arrangement, I could understand (and even rationalize) how they would think the new rules are tolerable.

GMF

J-Pitty

I have to disagree that sensibility or clear and logical argument had a major role in US's decision to drop their planned policy changes. It seems more likely that some sort of critical mass of outrage and media coverage was reached, and that that tipped the scales back.

goldmedallionflyer

... is that AA and UAL have a far superior Y product. AA has MRTC. UAL has E+ for elite and full-fare fliers. DL has neither. But for those DL employees who will be making wage concessions ... looks like you have better odds on your stand-bys since F will be open a much larger percentage of the time.

So in revamping the SkyMiles system to more closely match the other majors, DL missed (ignored?) that their Y product is far, far inferrior to the others. If all majors follow suit with todays FF changes, I will be flying and earning status on the carrier that has the best Y product. Today, it's UAL on the routes I fly. As such, AA becomes a valid second alternative.

Now, had DL decided to roll out the new plan and also simultaneously announce that its planes were going to be refitted with an E+ or MRTC scheme, I believe that many (myself included) would not be taking this so offensively. But to so deeply gut the benefits of the top-most tier and couple it with us recognizing that we'll be spending a great deal more time in an inferrior Y cabin ... well, this was a huge mistake IMO. So now, a GM has almost identical benefits to a PM, the most notable exception being 6 (I can't afford to use them) PMU's and 28 extra hours to clear an upgrade.

Numerous times this year DL had the opportunity to take the high road - and each time chose the gutter path instead. This cheerleader is finding it awful difficult to grab the pom-poms today.

I'm coming to the conclusion that it just isn't worth fighting our corporate travel to get management approval to use a non * carrier anymore. I'm almost comforted that I have not made purchases for next year's travel just yet, as all of my int'l flights (10+ r/t to Europe and Asia) are in the first trimester each year. Looks like I'll make top elite on another carrier instead of DL this coming year.

Trouble is, do I risk it and take the chance that UAL will not to go under?

GMF

Tango

Avek00: Airlines do not always march in the same step. Delta got rid of SWU's several years ago and AA and UA have not matched. There is a way for an Airline to benefit high revenue passengers and low fare passengers at the same time--AA does it with Q points. The new Delta system takes aways from the low revenue passenger. You would think that since FF mileage programs are one of the few profitable programs left in the industry, the airlines would want to expand the user base but it looks like Delta wants to go another direction. Even if you feel this will not effect you since your business puts you on higher class fares, what about the times when you fly on your own dime? or when you change jobs or retire?

Jimpop: Even though I won't be flying Delta much in the future, I look forward to posting here from time to time---cheers

ComAirKid

I usually fly Y and B fares. (I wait for the last few days to book my travel - this stratagey may help some of you folks) so I'll try to fly DL as much as possible.

Tango

Why don't you try CX---while they may not have the most choices to Asia they offer top notch service.

LexPassenger

gmf: excellent analysis.

Some of us are stuck with zero (as in nada and none) AA flights in our home airports, and three (count 'em) UA tundra jets to Chicago as our AA and UA alternatives.

Here (shudder) NW is the imaginable alternative.

Are there any exercises to bring your knees in closer to your body? Just asking.

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"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
Delta Flyers' Guide
E-mail on the Flyers' Guide

LexPassenger

CAK: so long as you stay on Comair, I don't mind.

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"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
Delta Flyers' Guide
E-mail on the Flyers' Guide