vinnmann

Deleted

brendamc

It's the sole reason why (besides the abysmal F Cl LAX/HNL) we've switched to AA - already achieved the Plat Challenge in 3 months - sorry Delta, your loss.

JSNYC2003

I know there has been a lot of griping about Delta's policies regarding int'l upgrades on the day of the flight, but I just encountered a new reason to be angry.

I am PM and was upgraded well in advance on an international ticket. Some friends of mine were also on the same flight on M fares. I had them joined on the same record as me and put on the waitlist to upgrade using my miles (they have no status on Delta and according to Delta no upgrades were available at the time we called a week in advance). As the day of the flight approached, we kept calling Delta to check in and see how the waiting list was doing. Although there were unclaimed seats, my friends never cleared the waiting list.

We arrived at the airport together and checked in together. I tried to see if they could be kept on the waiting list for upgrade and my miles used if upgrading was possible. It was explained to us that coach was overbooked and that people in coach would need to be operationally upgraded to BE. It was then explained that the policy for Operational Upgrades is that Elite skymiles members (who may have never even asked for an upgrade) are upgraded first before any non-elites can be upgraded. I was told that even though I wanted to use miles to upgrade my friends, miles could not be used on the day of the flight under any circumstances and only operational upgrades are possible. What I want to know is how this makes any sense? Delta has customers willing to spend 25,000 miles to upgrade, but turns them down to take other customers who never asked for the upgrade and they are given the upgrade without having to spend miles. I know the reason against same day upgrades has to with catering, but how can that possibly apply to whether you charge the customers you are upgrading or not? It would seem to me that if you have customers who want to pay (use miles) to upgrade, you should upgrade them ahead of the customers who do not want to pay (use miles) for the upgrade. Maybe some insight from the knowledgeable Delta employees would be helpful here.

atl runner

Although I agree that DAL should allow same day upgrades for international flights, like RobertS975, I would only buy a YBM fare if I could upgrade at the time of purchase. Fortunately, I can book well in advance and haven't had much problem with upgrading . And even if they allowed any fare the ability to do upgrades, I wouldn't typically take a chance on getting an upgrade on departure day. I want to know I'm upfront before the fact. I only fly to Europe at most 2 or 3 times a year so I can afford to ensure my desire to be in BE. However, I can see how I would like the option if I had to change at the last minute. And upgrades of elites should certainly take precedence over non-revs, and it's stupid to have BE seats vacant when elites are sitting in coach after having shelled out for a YBM fare.

ClipperDelta

Actually, there is a "fine print" to this as several agents have told me - the policy is that DL does not clear upgrades at the airport after you have checked in but they do still clear on day of departure. I've cleared on day of departure before (though automatically, and not through an airport check-in agent intervention) a few times...small distinction I know and probably doesn't help most people.

I believe this archaic policy was started some time ago so as not to cause boarding gate delays with a last-minute onslaught of upgrade processing/dedcution of miles, etc. However, since Delta has significantly enhanced its automation, they have unfortunately not revisited this topic....hopefully the brass will hear us loud and clear and reconsider.....

RSSrsvp

JSNYC2003, basically this is no different than the domestic upgrade policy where they cannot sell any upgrades at the gate until all of the Medallions have been cleared. This is DL's way of showing their appreciation to the customers that have earned elite status. I totally agree with this policy.

JSNYC2003

With all due respect Rssrsvp, there is a huge distinction between the domestic policy and the international policy. This distinction renders your assertion that they are analogous weak at best.

On Domestic flights, elite flyers can upgrade for no cost. They do not have to use miles, upgrade points, or coupons. All they need to do is ask. As a platinum medallion, I would be furious if somebody was able to upgrade ahead of me on a Domestic flight (other than by paying the full first fare). This is logical, and I understand it and agree with you about it.

HOWEVER, on International flights, it is not enough to simply ask for an upgrade. The upgrade must be paid for in some way (usually PMUs or miles). An elite flyer may want to save PMUs and miles for other purposes and not ask for an international upgrade; whereas, domestically, there is no reason for an elite to avoid asking for the upgrade.

I fully agree with Delta honoring elite status (I am platinum medallion, why wouldn't I?), but, if I was in the back of an international flight and did not ask for an upgrade to conserve my miles or PMUs, then I would not be upset if a lower level flyer took an upgrade by spending the currency I was not willing to spend. I would expect Delta to act that way. Miles and coupons are liabilities of Delta, by accepting them from customers in exchange for seats that would go empty, Delta is reducing its liabilities at very little cost to it(something any rational economic entity might want to consider).

I agree that if the elite level is willing to spend the currency, he/she should be upgraded ahead of lower level flyers. It just seems to me crazy that when delta must upgrade somebody from the back of the plane on an international flight and Delta has the choice of taking 25,000 miles from somebody or giving the seat away for nothing, Delta chooses to give away the seat for nothing. The irony is that if I had not upgraded ahead of time on that flight, I would have been operationally upgraded at no cost. I do not begrudge Delta the PMU that I wasted when I could have upgraded for free, but it seems Delta's policy encourages a level of gamesmenship that I could use to try to scotch more of these operational upgrades for free. All summer long flights were overbooked in coach with open seats in BE.

As to the commenter above asking why would my friends by a "M" class fare, I would say the following, try to buy in mid-summer a transatlantic ticket on one week's notice without a Saturday night stay for lower than an "M" fare. Good luck! Look, we knew that it was a longshot that they would be able to upgrade. The thing we did not know is that Delta would upgrade people who did not ask for an upgrade for free rather than upgrade a person who asked to pay PMUs and miles for the same upgrade. As a Platinum medallion, Delta's policy helps me. It just seems that I would rather have Delta give me perks in a more rational way rather than this idiotic way. I would much rather be able to upgrade using miles or a certificate on the day of the flight; than take this embedded advantage in getting operational upgrades. However, now that I know this policy, I might try to game me some of those free int't upgrades. It just seems that Delta should not want too encourage its flyers to try such gamesmenship.

runningshoes

rssrsvp - I'm reading JSNYC's complaint completely as a different issue than domestic upgrades. On domestic, there is a wait list and people either clear or don't. On domestic, use of miles can be done before day of departure w/o regard to elite status, if seats are available. In his case, seats were not only available, no one even was asking for them! If an elite flyer wanted those seats, they would have asked before time of departure and either been assigned, or told nothing is open.

I agree with JSNYC - this is plain stupidity in action on DL's part.

BTW - I'm in Tokyo after a SQ C flight because there were no DL upgrades available for anywhere near the dates I needed to fly, and their C fares were significantly higher than SQ's, AND BizE doesn't come close to Raffles. As I mentioned on another post, I've not been on a DL plane since the middle of August - and it wasn't planned. DL policies on international fares/upgrades combined with the fare increases they pushed through domestically have driven me to *. I've already hit Plat with DL, so zero incentive for any more flights. I won't hit 1K with UA, but it will be real close. I may have to do a MR for the first time in my life!

USCGamecock

I don't think this is correct. Paid J class always trumps non-revs. If you paid for a J class seat, you will not have a non-rev get the seat before you.

MartinG

The inventory in J was available. The ticket desk called the gate for a seat assignment, couldn't get one. Its at this point I suspect the gate agent put his non-revs up front. This was confirmed by the FA, 5 were in BE, and she told me the gate agent actually came on and pulled the nephew of one of the non-rev's up front.

I suspect the GA had buddies on that flight.

RSSrsvp

It almost sounds like they were moved up front before you made your inquiry and the agent didn't want to reverse that decision.

bleedinblue

PMU's are hit and miss. Basically, I have found that as long as you are on a Y,B,M, and it is not a sunday or monday night, you should get upgraded. Now, the bad part are the operational upgrades that happen by the GA. Talk about pissed. I always ask when checking in if any seats in Biz are still open. Always the response is no, we are full, only to find out that the last set of rows are "held" for those special enough to be selected by the GA. Once I confronted the GA about it, and he told me it was for our Elite members. I proceeded to show him my Plat card and asked him what was I then? He seemed to get embarrased and said that these folks had checked in before I did. So, armed with that knowledge, I asked him how he selected the people that get so lucky on OU's. Obvioulsy, I had him backed into a corner at this point and proceeded to tell me that the others were plats as well. Then, once I boarded, I asked the FA how many plats had received OU's. She went to check here list and then came back and apologized to me realizing that some people had been bumped that weren't even SM Members. Now, talk about pissed!!!

Any suggestions from those of you that have experienced this would be nice. I think that there is some serious nepotism existing on these Int'l flights and I would like to know what to do. These GA have way too much power by blocking seats and "selecting" individuals based on no other merit other than they like the person.

Spiff

Don't fly Delta internationally, if at all.

DeltaFlyingProf

I disagree with you and JSNYC and agree with rssrsvp that DL needs that it values loyalty! It is a gesture that makes Medaillon members feel good about sticking with DL. This has been one of the major problems with DL: not taking good care of its faithful base to the point they jump ship. As for the incentive for more flights after PM, the bonus option at 125k made me buy a K fare rather than L just to reach the 125k threshold. So there are incentives.

CelticFlyer

Contact DL with the specific details and ask them to explain:

a) The rules that the GA should follow
b) Any variation from the rules as they were applied that day.

Delta isn't the only airline where issues like this arise. The GAs are juggling conflicting demands and need some flexibility. However, the company policy on who should get upgraded for operational reasons should be clear and should be followed.

I have had good luck with op ups on international flights this year but I don't doubt that problems exist.