Is Diamond Medallion Status Worth it?
Dec 10, 2009, 2:05 pm
#76
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gone to Carolina in my mind
Programs: AA ExpMM, DL 2MM, IHG Spire/RA
Posts: 1,986
I have posted to the Forum many times that with respect to the SWU issue, DL knows full well the disenchantment with SWUs on this Forum. Whether DL always responds here, don't believe for one moment that it does not monitor or doesn't have our pulse on the issue. DL's model (cultural or statistical) tells it that SWUs on fares lower than YBM is revenue negative. DL will not do things that it believes are revenue negative even with our ad nauseum protestation here. Until the DL model suggests that SWUs on lower fares are not revenue negative or if not granted will result in loss of revenue ultimately, nothing will change.
Hence, why you don't see many of us protesting here. The message must be quantifiable loss of revenue as a direct result of restrictive SWU use. How is that message delivered, by allocating your travel expenditures elsewhere. Then and only then, will DL change its policy IMHO.
Safe Travels
Hence, why you don't see many of us protesting here. The message must be quantifiable loss of revenue as a direct result of restrictive SWU use. How is that message delivered, by allocating your travel expenditures elsewhere. Then and only then, will DL change its policy IMHO.
Safe Travels
And that's the name of that tune!
Dec 10, 2009, 2:10 pm
#77
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: DL AA UA
Posts: 2,359
I have posted to the Forum many times that with respect to the SWU issue, DL knows full well the disenchantment with SWUs on this Forum. Whether DL always responds here, don't believe for one moment that it does not monitor or doesn't have our pulse on the issue. DL's model (cultural or statistical) tells it that SWUs on fares lower than YBM is revenue negative. DL will not do things that it believes are revenue negative even with our ad nauseum protestation here. Until the DL model suggests that SWUs on lower fares are not revenue negative or if not granted will result in loss of revenue ultimately, nothing will change.
Hence, why you don't see many of us protesting here. The message must be quantifiable loss of revenue as a direct result of restrictive SWU use. How is that message delivered, by allocating your travel expenditures elsewhere. Then and only then, will DL change its policy IMHO.
Safe Travels
Hence, why you don't see many of us protesting here. The message must be quantifiable loss of revenue as a direct result of restrictive SWU use. How is that message delivered, by allocating your travel expenditures elsewhere. Then and only then, will DL change its policy IMHO.
Safe Travels
) to figure out that their model will only show results after a substantial lag time. When a future or present PM or DM secure their status match, it may be some time before they start spending their (and possibly many others') $$s on OALs. Those results may not get to Virgina Ave. for months. Further, if your customers are asking for something in relevant numbers, that something is reasonable and pertains to a matter that your competition readily provides, then it would seem to behoove management to give their "model" a bit more scrutiny.
Dec 10, 2009, 2:30 pm
#78
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
I have posted to the Forum many times that with respect to the SWU issue, DL knows full well the disenchantment with SWUs on this Forum. Whether DL always responds here, don't believe for one moment that it does not monitor or doesn't have our pulse on the issue. DL's model (cultural or statistical) tells it that SWUs on fares lower than YBM is revenue negative. DL will not do things that it believes are revenue negative even with our ad nauseum protestation here. Until the DL model suggests that SWUs on lower fares are not revenue negative or if not granted will result in loss of revenue ultimately, nothing will change.
Hence, why you don't see many of us protesting here. The message must be quantifiable loss of revenue as a direct result of restrictive SWU use. How is that message delivered, by allocating your travel expenditures elsewhere. Then and only then, will DL change its policy IMHO.
Safe Travels
Hence, why you don't see many of us protesting here. The message must be quantifiable loss of revenue as a direct result of restrictive SWU use. How is that message delivered, by allocating your travel expenditures elsewhere. Then and only then, will DL change its policy IMHO.
Safe Travels
It's been said multiple times that PMU's are one of the things that many of us at the DL DO were asked about. DL knows we're not happy but doesn't seem to have been able to make the deal with the devil (revenue management) on lowering their application to anything other than YBM. We can see why, the B/M fares are often within $200-1000 of the I fare and the decision many of us have had to make is between spending the extra $$ on an I fare versus the M with Z upgrade.
I've seen significantly better Z inventory within the past 6-9 months on routes I look at frequently (EZE, LHR & FCO) however, the M fare has been creeping up.
I used to be able to get an M fare to NRT for $2000 while the I fare was $6000. WELL WELL WELL worth flying the 75K domestically to get that availability.
I do hope that DL will "see the light" and understand that the PMU is now a negative in their program. That could be why there is now "elite choice benefits" of miles, PMU or a crappy gift card.
Dec 10, 2009, 3:27 pm
#79
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, UA-PE, AA
Posts: 1,074
BTW, I stopped using PMUs on M-fares about 3 or 4 years ago on TATL flights, i.e., when M-fares started climbing up. I beleive many PMs did the same thing as attested by Jeff's statistics (80% of PMUs were not used as of this summer). Hence, I would argue that the message has been delivered loud and clear!
Dec 10, 2009, 3:44 pm
#80
Join Date: May 2005
Location: FLL
Programs: DL ♦M MM|HH♦|Marr Slvr|CO UA AA US|Pri Cub Plat|SPG|Avis 1st|Htz 5*
Posts: 5,044
How can a drop of 7.1% in Nov NOT be considered negative to revenue? A problem I imagine is a passing of the buck:
Those who control the fares at DL will blame....
Those who created rollover MQMs who will blame....
Those who dictate that PMUs are driving away traffic to OALs who will blame...
Those who worked on the NW/DL merger who will blame...
Those who manage the award calendar who will blame...
Those who control the fares at DL. They will then blame the FAs who will blame...
The pilots who will blame....
The two pilots who overshot MSP...
Who will blame ATC...
Who will blame the TSA...
Who will blame the scapegoat that was fired for leaking the procedures manual.
Each of the "those" I mention could point to a dozen threads at FT to support why they are flying in with turkeys instead of soaring with eagles.
How in the world would DL be able to quantify just WHY traffic is so far down... much further down than the other big airlines? They can't. They don't hunt down every flier and ask them why they aren't on Delta.
With big merger such as the DL/NW merger everyone will be in self-preservation mode. If any one of the "those" I mentioned blinks they will have a huge target on their forehead because then all the other vultures will point to them as THE problem. It buys every vulture another 6 months of making mistakes.
We lost Jeff to Hilton. The others might just be waiting for their parachute.
[edit: wait, not Jeff, we lost the IT guy to Hilton... what is his name again?]
Those who control the fares at DL will blame....
Those who created rollover MQMs who will blame....
Those who dictate that PMUs are driving away traffic to OALs who will blame...
Those who worked on the NW/DL merger who will blame...
Those who manage the award calendar who will blame...
Those who control the fares at DL. They will then blame the FAs who will blame...
The pilots who will blame....
The two pilots who overshot MSP...
Who will blame ATC...
Who will blame the TSA...
Who will blame the scapegoat that was fired for leaking the procedures manual.
Each of the "those" I mention could point to a dozen threads at FT to support why they are flying in with turkeys instead of soaring with eagles.
How in the world would DL be able to quantify just WHY traffic is so far down... much further down than the other big airlines? They can't. They don't hunt down every flier and ask them why they aren't on Delta.
With big merger such as the DL/NW merger everyone will be in self-preservation mode. If any one of the "those" I mentioned blinks they will have a huge target on their forehead because then all the other vultures will point to them as THE problem. It buys every vulture another 6 months of making mistakes.
We lost Jeff to Hilton. The others might just be waiting for their parachute.
[edit: wait, not Jeff, we lost the IT guy to Hilton... what is his name again?]
Dec 10, 2009, 3:54 pm
#81
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EP, AA AC
Posts: 4,268
How can a drop of 7.1% in Nov NOT be considered negative to revenue? A problem I imagine is a passing of the buck:
Those who control the fares at DL will blame....
Those who created rollover MQMs who will blame....
Those who dictate that PMUs are driving away traffic to OALs who will blame...
Those who worked on the NW/DL merger who will blame...
Those who manage the award calendar who will blame...
Those who control the fares at DL. They will then blame the FAs who will blame...
The pilots who will blame....
The two pilots who overshot MSP...
Who will blame ATC...
Who will blame the TSA...
Who will blame the scapegoat that was fired for leaking the procedures manual.
Each of the "those" I mention could point to a dozen threads at FT to support why they are flying in with turkeys instead of soaring with eagles.
How in the world would DL be able to quantify just WHY traffic is so far down... much further down than the other big airlines? They can't. They don't hunt down every flier and ask them why they aren't on Delta.
With big merger such as the DL/NW merger everyone will be in self-preservation mode. If any one of the "those" I mentioned blinks they will have a huge target on their forehead because then all the other vultures will point to them as THE problem. It buys every vulture another 6 months of making mistakes.
We lost Jeff to Hilton. The others might just be waiting for their parachute.
[edit: wait, not Jeff, we lost the IT guy to Hilton... what is his name again?]
Those who control the fares at DL will blame....
Those who created rollover MQMs who will blame....
Those who dictate that PMUs are driving away traffic to OALs who will blame...
Those who worked on the NW/DL merger who will blame...
Those who manage the award calendar who will blame...
Those who control the fares at DL. They will then blame the FAs who will blame...
The pilots who will blame....
The two pilots who overshot MSP...
Who will blame ATC...
Who will blame the TSA...
Who will blame the scapegoat that was fired for leaking the procedures manual.
Each of the "those" I mention could point to a dozen threads at FT to support why they are flying in with turkeys instead of soaring with eagles.
How in the world would DL be able to quantify just WHY traffic is so far down... much further down than the other big airlines? They can't. They don't hunt down every flier and ask them why they aren't on Delta.
With big merger such as the DL/NW merger everyone will be in self-preservation mode. If any one of the "those" I mentioned blinks they will have a huge target on their forehead because then all the other vultures will point to them as THE problem. It buys every vulture another 6 months of making mistakes.
We lost Jeff to Hilton. The others might just be waiting for their parachute.
[edit: wait, not Jeff, we lost the IT guy to Hilton... what is his name again?]
The bottom line on the PMU issue is that this not another flare up of a DL North-DL South argument. Legacy DL-South elite were protesting this long before the merger while Legacy DL-North folks main concern was what was the minimum layover at MEM necessary to still be able to get Interstate Barbecue.
Joking aside, FT has been loud and clear for years, and DL has done nothing. DL understands our concern and hear its, but it won't address it until such time as aforementioned. Just my 2 cents Y'all. Having said that keep in mind what do I know, this FFP thing confuses me anyway.
Safe Travels Gang!
Dec 10, 2009, 4:25 pm
#82
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
This and other posts perfectly illustrates the point. DL needs to be able both as a "numerical matter" and a "cultural matter" show that easing SWU restrictions will enhance the bottom line. To do that would require looking at the numbers in "non traditional DL way" IMHO. As others have noted, that is not an easy task for a plethora of reasons.
The bottom line on the PMU issue is that this not another flare up of a DL North-DL South argument. Legacy DL-South elite were protesting this long before the merger while Legacy DL-North folks main concern was what was the minimum layover at MEM necessary to still be able to get Interstate Barbecue. Joking aside, FT has been loud and clear for years, and DL has done nothing.
DL understands our concern and hear its, but it won't address it until such time as aforementioned. Just my 2 cents Y'all. Having said that keep in mind what do I know, this FFP thing confuses me anyway.
Safe Travels Gang!
The bottom line on the PMU issue is that this not another flare up of a DL North-DL South argument. Legacy DL-South elite were protesting this long before the merger while Legacy DL-North folks main concern was what was the minimum layover at MEM necessary to still be able to get Interstate Barbecue.
Joking aside, FT has been loud and clear for years, and DL has done nothing. DL understands our concern and hear its, but it won't address it until such time as aforementioned. Just my 2 cents Y'all. Having said that keep in mind what do I know, this FFP thing confuses me anyway.
Safe Travels Gang!
VERY VERY true.
Dec 13, 2009, 4:17 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
Posts: 8,691
I agree. I doubt that the number of DMs will rarely exceed 3 on any given 757/757 flight (I think the average number of ExP's on AA is ~2).
The main advantage is that DMs will be guaranteed the upgrade even on sLUT fares. PMs will have to buy K+ fares or use PMUs on elite heavy routes like LAX-ATL.
The main advantage is that DMs will be guaranteed the upgrade even on sLUT fares. PMs will have to buy K+ fares or use PMUs on elite heavy routes like LAX-ATL.
I never thought that upgrades would stop for PM's, GM's, SM's... I just like knowing that I will be ahead of the pack.
Dec 14, 2009, 7:08 am
#86
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix
Programs: DL Million Miler, Skymiles GM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite
Posts: 677
I was at 120K and change, so I booked a PHX-ATL-BOS-ATL-PHX loop this past Saturday to get the extra 5K I need for Diamond.
I waffled several times on whether or not to stop short, but in the peace of mind of knowing I was virtually guaranteed a 100% upgrade record in '10 was what made me do it. The PM ranks will be full this year due to the double mileage and other promos, and this puts me ahead of that crowd.
The free SkyClub membership and extra 25% miles match is just a nice bonus.
I waffled several times on whether or not to stop short, but in the peace of mind of knowing I was virtually guaranteed a 100% upgrade record in '10 was what made me do it. The PM ranks will be full this year due to the double mileage and other promos, and this puts me ahead of that crowd.
The free SkyClub membership and extra 25% miles match is just a nice bonus.
Dec 14, 2009, 9:38 am
#87
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Programs: Delta-Diamond, Marriott-Platinum, *wood-Plat, Hyatt-Plat, HH-Silver, Frontier-Ascent, Hertz-Prez0
Posts: 147
I am new to the game former NWA guy but have had excellent luck as a GM this year, around 65% upgrades flying out of DCA. All domestic, shorter flights to the midwest mostly.
Today is my last flight as a lowly gold if this fog ever lifts, hoping my first time PM status is better than this year as GM and it was a pretty decent year.
It takes a heck of a lot of 500 mile flights to get to 75k. I may have a chance to make a run for Diamond next year since I am picking up new territory at work but I won't even bother if PM isn't better than gold.
I couldn't live without FT anymore but y'all are really good at making some of us young guys nervous about our much smaller goals from time to time.
Among my group of 20 somethings business travelers PM is still a big deal.
Appreciate all of your help though.
Today is my last flight as a lowly gold if this fog ever lifts, hoping my first time PM status is better than this year as GM and it was a pretty decent year.
It takes a heck of a lot of 500 mile flights to get to 75k. I may have a chance to make a run for Diamond next year since I am picking up new territory at work but I won't even bother if PM isn't better than gold.
I couldn't live without FT anymore but y'all are really good at making some of us young guys nervous about our much smaller goals from time to time.
Among my group of 20 somethings business travelers PM is still a big deal.
Appreciate all of your help though.
Dec 15, 2009, 8:42 am
#88
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL, BHM, DUB, County Wexford
Programs: DL DM, AA ExPlt, Diamond HH, HY, BW, & Titanium Elite Marriott
Posts: 4,864
If you're going to hit 125-150K anyway next year, I would just go ahead and achieve Diamond for the 125% bonus miles.
Most people stop short of Diamond, because they rather have two years of Platinum instead of one year Diamond and one year Gold. I'd be one of them, because I will travel less on DL as I move back to Europe and Diamond will not help me much with upgrades there.
You would get two years of Diamond if you pass the 125K threshold this year and next year. I would go for it.
Most people stop short of Diamond, because they rather have two years of Platinum instead of one year Diamond and one year Gold. I'd be one of them, because I will travel less on DL as I move back to Europe and Diamond will not help me much with upgrades there.
You would get two years of Diamond if you pass the 125K threshold this year and next year. I would go for it.
Nov 12, 2010, 3:14 pm
#89
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: PLT Starwood, Ambassador Program Starwood, DM Delta, PM Marriott, Avis First
Posts: 31
Is it worth making Diamond??
Hey guys, big fan of this site. Always read your posts and appreciate all the insight. A few questions. I have been a Delta Platinum for 5 years and typically fly 100-110MQM's (which tends to be hard for me as most of my flights are the Delta Shuttle between LGA - DCA, where I only get 500MQMs)..What bothers me is I always purchase a Y or Q fare for these flights and ticket prices have continually gone up over the past year...Getting upgrades as a Platinum on these flights was never hard, however, since the merger I am finding myself sitting in the back more often. Very much annoys me and I have reached out to Delta on numerous occassions to seek an upgrade to Diamond. Main arguement is that i have many colleagues that fly 1/2 is much as I do on T fares to and from California on projects and are beating me with their Diamond Status. Understand it is an industry norm, but REALLY wish Delta would reward me for my continued business for the past 5 years, and for my expensive fares week over week.....Prior to flying Delta I was a Platinum on Continental and was treated amazingly..In fact, I am seriously considering going back over....So, my main question....Are other Platinum's having the same issue as me, feel that we are not treated like we used to be??? Secondly, to those Diamond's out there, do you recomment I take a last minute trip to Cali or Europe to seal the deal to make Diamond??? Part of me is leaning towards stopping at 120MQM's and keeping the roll-over to ensure I stay Platinum in the next few years...That is, unless Diamond is that much better. Anyway would love any insight. Thanks!!
Nov 12, 2010, 3:33 pm
#90
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Programs: Delta 1MM/DM, *wood Lifetime Gold
Posts: 285
Hey guys, big fan of this site. Always read your posts and appreciate all the insight. A few questions. I have been a Delta Platinum for 5 years and typically fly 100-110MQM's (which tends to be hard for me as most of my flights are the Delta Shuttle between LGA - DCA, where I only get 500MQMs)..What bothers me is I always purchase a Y or Q fare for these flights and ticket prices have continually gone up over the past year...Getting upgrades as a Platinum on these flights was never hard, however, since the merger I am finding myself sitting in the back more often. Very much annoys me and I have reached out to Delta on numerous occassions to seek an upgrade to Diamond. Main arguement is that i have many colleagues that fly 1/2 is much as I do on T fares to and from California on projects and are beating me with their Diamond Status. Understand it is an industry norm, but REALLY wish Delta would reward me for my continued business for the past 5 years, and for my expensive fares week over week.....Prior to flying Delta I was a Platinum on Continental and was treated amazingly..In fact, I am seriously considering going back over....So, my main question....Are other Platinum's having the same issue as me, feel that we are not treated like we used to be??? Secondly, to those Diamond's out there, do you recomment I take a last minute trip to Cali or Europe to seal the deal to make Diamond??? Part of me is leaning towards stopping at 120MQM's and keeping the roll-over to ensure I stay Platinum in the next few years...That is, unless Diamond is that much better. Anyway would love any insight. Thanks!!
for domestic flights, skyclub/ lounge is the only real benefit for diamonds.
Finally, if you primarily buy Y fares, you will be upgraded over all Diamonds on non Y fares (which in my experience is practically all of them).