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Delta rolling back some changes

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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 10:59 am
  #586  
 
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Originally Posted by Keyser
No more Delta bookings for me till Ed's 'rollbacks' are announced.

I'm an international based Diamond who typically re-qualifies thanks to 4-5 India-USA trips & 3-4 India-Europe trips a year. I have a team of 8 people who work under me & at any point, 1 or 2 travel with me depending on where I'm going & what case I'm working on. They all fly what I fly so altogether we are 3 Diamond & 4 Platinum members. My wife & kids are also Gold thanks to a couple of India-USA trips we end up taking every year.

I always believed I would be the type of member Delta would be pretty happy to have. I fly exclusively with them, hardly use the lounge, hardly use GUCs & am always flying business/first class so not taking up upgrade space. The same goes for my family & my work colleagues. They get all my business & I take up very little in terms of benefits.

Since the changes were announced, I've made the next 3 bookings on other airlines. Probably the first time I have done this in years. 2 trips are to the US & one to Amsterdam. I'm going to continue to do this till these 'rollbacks' are revealed. After that I'll take a call on what to do next. As much as I have been loyal to Delta for the last 10 odd years, as an international Medallion member, I can't see myself spending $35K on them every year to retain my Diamond status.
The great thing is you have a choice on airlines to fly from India. If you are happy with those other airlines and their schedule and service stay with them. Your are not entitled to Diamond status because you spend money with your CC. And as I have said, as a true frequent flyer on many airlines, I won't miss the entitle pax with faux status. You don't deserve to be in the same status level as someone who flies much more than you and spends much more than you. Not sure what the big deal is for you since you said you don't use the status benefits anyway. Maybe your ego can't handle boarding behind the likes of me? A woman no less who flies and spends more than you? There are too many elites at all the levels, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And the good news is, you have flying choices if you don't like Delta.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:04 am
  #587  
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Originally Posted by OneHourPhoto
Part rhetorical I guess and part inquisitive but I don't really understand why Delta would care if their lounges are "overcrowded"? other than if AMEX has told them they need to scale back on the CC costs associated with the unlimited access to AMEX Plat and DL Reserve
Constantly crowded is probably less of a concern for DL, but the constant lines at certain locations are definitely an issue. Though perhaps the real solution for those locations is more capacity.

But Amex is clearly looking to cut costs (look at all the very recent limits to sign up bonuses), so I can see them having had a say in these changes.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:06 am
  #588  
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Originally Posted by Keyser
No more Delta bookings for me till Ed's 'rollbacks' are announced.

I'm an international based Diamond who typically re-qualifies thanks to 4-5 India-USA trips & 3-4 India-Europe trips a year. I have a team of 8 people who work under me & at any point, 1 or 2 travel with me depending on where I'm going & what case I'm working on. They all fly what I fly so altogether we are 3 Diamond & 4 Platinum members. My wife & kids are also Gold thanks to a couple of India-USA trips we end up taking every year.

I always believed I would be the type of member Delta would be pretty happy to have. I fly exclusively with them, hardly use the lounge, hardly use GUCs & am always flying business/first class so not taking up upgrade space. The same goes for my family & my work colleagues. They get all my business & I take up very little in terms of benefits.

Since the changes were announced, I've made the next 3 bookings on other airlines. Probably the first time I have done this in years. 2 trips are to the US & one to Amsterdam. I'm going to continue to do this till these 'rollbacks' are revealed. After that I'll take a call on what to do next. As much as I have been loyal to Delta for the last 10 odd years, as an international Medallion member, I can't see myself spending $35K on them every year to retain my Diamond status.
Non-US residents got the total shaft without being able to get an Amex card these MQDs are just way too high with flying only.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:15 am
  #589  
 
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Originally Posted by sydneyracquelle
Non-US residents got the total shaft without being able to get an Amex card these MQDs are just way too high with flying only.
I never used a dime of CC spend to qualify and there are plenty of us out there. They need to FLY more on airlines and PAY more for actual tickets. Like I do.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:16 am
  #590  
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Originally Posted by OneHourPhoto
Part rhetorical I guess and part inquisitive but I don't really understand why Delta would care if their lounges are "overcrowded"? other than if AMEX has told them they need to scale back on the CC costs associated with the unlimited access to AMEX Plat and DL Reserve
DL might care since constantly crowded suggests it is not priced high enough. Their reaction is effectively to raise the price to align supply and demand.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:20 am
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Originally Posted by jfktocdg
I never used a dime of CC spend to qualify and there are plenty of us out there. They need to FLY more on airlines and PAY more for actual tickets. Like I do.
it's a really weird coincidence that the objectively correct method and the method that you happen to use are exactly the same
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:22 am
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Originally Posted by richarddd
DL might care since constantly crowded suggests it is not priced high enough. Their reaction is effectively to raise the price to align supply and demand.
You are both wrong. DL cares about the overcrowding at their lounges because it represents their image and their product and their brand. They want to offer the best product and be able to demand premium dollars for that product. Just as they would never want CSRs or FA or GA to give terrible service, they don't want their lounges too either. They need to differential all aspects of their product ecosystem so that their MOST frequent fliers and their HIGHEST paying customers have and end to end superior experience from the moment they enter the airport to the moment they complete their trip. The system broke down in the last several years and they are thankfully righting the ship. They would rather have fewer people spending more, than more people spending less. That race to the bottom never ends well.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:35 am
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Originally Posted by jfktocdg
Your are not entitled to Diamond status because you spend money with your CC. And as I have said, as a true frequent flyer on many airlines, I won't miss the entitle pax with faux status. You don't deserve to be in the same status level as someone who flies much more than you and spends much more than you. Not sure what the big deal is for you since you said you don't use the status benefits anyway. Maybe your ego can't handle boarding behind the likes of me? A woman no less who flies and spends more than you? There are too many elites at all the levels, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And the good news is, you have flying choices if you don't like Delta.
You need to dial back the aggressive tone a bit. You sound more entitled in your mini-rant, than anything Keyser said. I don't know what you being a woman has to do with anything, so odd to even bring that up at all or tell someone what they deserve.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:36 am
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Originally Posted by jfktocdg
You are both wrong. DL cares about the overcrowding at their lounges because it represents their image and their product and their brand. They want to offer the best product and be able to demand premium dollars for that product. Just as they would never want CSRs or FA or GA to give terrible service, they don't want their lounges too either. They need to differential all aspects of their product ecosystem so that their MOST frequent fliers and their HIGHEST paying customers have and end to end superior experience from the moment they enter the airport to the moment they complete their trip. The system broke down in the last several years and they are thankfully righting the ship. They would rather have fewer people spending more, than more people spending less. That race to the bottom never ends well.
The goal should be to have more people spending more. It does not matter if you have more people spending less or less people spending more - you basically wind up in the same place. The highest spenders will spend the same - there is no material upside from them at the scale at which DL operates. The growth in a mature business comes from the bottom 80%, not the top 20%.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:46 am
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Originally Posted by The Situation
The goal should be to have more people spending more. It does not matter if you have more people spending less or less people spending more - you basically wind up in the same place. The highest spenders will spend the same - there is no material upside from them at the scale at which DL operates. The growth in a mature business comes from the bottom 80%, not the top 20%.
I don't agree at all. It's not "the same place" as you stated above. Fewer people spending more equaling more people spending less alleviates a lot of ills. Including overcrowding, "everybody is an Elite", too many free upgrades etc. The goldilocks scenario is fewer people spending more, AND higher spending leisure travelers which they learned exists. And I know the non-business/high spending leisure traveller exists and DL wants to capture them and they are ALL PROFIT> they don't eat up resources, they pay top dollar at non-business times of the year and they, most of them retirees with enormous nest eggs who will not sit in coach bc they can't/won't/don't have to at this point in their lives....they aren't using miles or GUC to upgrade, they book far in advance and they pay premium and often pay for baggage. And they don't want to travel in a zoo environment. That is the best scenario for DL. Cull the elites, keep the biz travelers who spend a lot happy and keep the leisure traveller who will pay for C+ or above happy. That is how DL wins.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:50 am
  #596  
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Originally Posted by Yellowjj
You need to dial back the aggressive tone a bit. You sound more entitled in your mini-rant, than anything Keyser said. I don't know what you being a woman has to do with anything, so odd to even bring that up at all or tell someone what they deserve.
I doubt the poster youre responding to is even a woman. It sounded like one of the rare troll posts on here.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 11:58 am
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Originally Posted by Yellowjj
You need to dial back the aggressive tone a bit. You sound more entitled in your mini-rant, than anything Keyser said. I don't know what you being a woman has to do with anything, so odd to even bring that up at all or tell someone what they deserve.
Keyser said he isn't flying DL until they rollback some of their changes. I can and will respond to that as I agree for reasons stated with Delta's new policies. And if you were a woman flyer you would get my sentiment, it's rather difficult especially since I fly more than 99.9% of all FT travelers. I fly more in a month than Keyser does in a year. I live on planes. I can write a book about this subject matter and if you perceive my tone as aggressive that's a you problem. Delta made changes that I agree with, and those changes needed to happen. Delta is dictating who deserves status, not me, but I agree with their assessment on who deserves what status and why.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 12:08 pm
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Originally Posted by busdriver11
I doubt the poster youre responding to is even a woman. It sounded like one of the rare troll posts on here.
Well you would be wrong. But you embody part of the spirit of my post.
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 12:08 pm
  #599  
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Originally Posted by Adelphos
If flying Delta when it makes the most sense and gets me to where I need to go in the most comfort, and that resulting in me reaching Diamond, is "sticking with DL," then "sticking with DL" may make sense for me and a lot of people. Regardless of all of this, Delta still has a route network and asset network (planes, clubs, etc) that will make sense for a lot of passengers. Passengers flying Delta in that situation will want to know how their flying will accrue miles and elite credit.

Are people suggesting that all passengers avoid flying Delta at all costs?
But this is what many have advocated for many years now. Be a free agent Fly the carrier that has the best price, routing. schedule, service and elite perks (feel free to disagree on the ordering). If sticking with DL makes sense (due to these factors) then by all means enjoy flying DL.

But for those who have a real choice of carriers (all else being equal) skypesos are a significant minus due to poor value compared to the alternatives. In addition, DL flyers are now finding that the elite perks may be reduced (because their status levels will tank in 2025), which may (or many not) be a huge minus compared to the competition.

For me its an easy choice because I live near a UA hub. But the fact that UA offers better elite perks, better pricing (when you factor free C+/E+) and miles I can actually use, means that it makes NO sense for me - and many others in the bay area - to buy paid travel on DL. Unless corp contracts, fare or routing dictate DL.

Originally Posted by jfktocdg
I fly more in a month than Keyser does in a year. I live on planes. I can write a book about this subject matter and if you perceive my tone as aggressive that's a you problem. Delta made changes that I agree with, and those changes needed to happen. Delta is dictating who deserves status, not me, but I agree with their assessment on who deserves what status and why.
For sure DL made changes to benefit its top revenue flyers. In this regard it is simply following what UA did some years ago. But the difference is that UA still threw a bone to lower level elites and status was still reasonably achievable for those elites. DL has basically sent the message "kiss off" unless you are spending huge amounts or charging absurd amounts on Amex.

I fully expect the remaining DL elites will see better upgrade % and elimination of lines at the DL clubs. I also fully expect Amex revenue from DL cardholders to tank, but I've been wrong about that before. In my area I still see many people using Southwest and United cards which have far inferior ROI to other options. But maybe 1% of the population knows enough to understand how the game should be played.
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Last edited by Boraxo; Oct 10, 2023 at 12:15 pm
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Old Oct 10, 2023 | 12:10 pm
  #600  
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Originally Posted by jfktocdg
They would rather have fewer people spending more, than more people spending less. That race to the bottom never ends well.
I think this perception of what DL is, is a bit off. Contrary to what the company likes to think about itself, DL isn't a luxury or exclusive product. At the end of the day, it's transportation. And they need to fill their planes by catering to a wide variety of customer. That's why they don't just sell D1/F and C+... they also sell BE at the back of the bus, and they sell tickets on online TAs like Expedia, whose clientele often shops by primarily by price.

You know what's really important to the biz travelers? Schedule/frequency. No way DL can fill planes in high frequency markets by just catering to the "premium" crowd.
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