Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

Involuntary two-class downgrade compensation?

Involuntary two-class downgrade compensation?

Old Sep 15, 2022, 11:30 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Right behind you.
Posts: 69
Question Involuntary two-class downgrade compensation?

I was booked on a Europe to US flight today in Premium select. It was a cash fare. Due to an equipment change, the aircraft didnít have Premium Select, and Comfort+ was full so I was put in Economy. Not exactly happy. But, not much I could do.

I understand that there should be a fare difference refund. And, probably some other compensation offer.

I know they will try to make this work in a manner that works best for them. Anyone have experience with this and have any suggestions as to what I should ask for? Either by experience or any specific EU clauses that might be in play?

There was no impact to schedule.

Thanks.
TankerT is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 11:51 am
  #2  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,497
USA DOT would require a refund of the fare difference, which should be based on the cheapest "main cabin experience" ticket DL was selling on the day you bought your ticket (assuming you have a discounted PS ticket, not FULL/nonrefundable fare).

However, since it was a flight FROM the EU, EC 261 also applies and you are owed 75% of the fare for the downgraded segment. There's a huge and authoritative sticky thread on EC 261 rules in the BA forum here on FT. IIRC the number of cabins of the downgrade doesn't matter and C+ is considered coach for EC 261 purposes.

Obviously you can pick one of these methods, not request both.

Were you given the option to be rebooked in PS on another flight or a different day? DL should have been willing to do this. When did you learn of the aircraft change and resulting downgrade?
becks1, Spiff and strickerj like this.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 11:54 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA ExPl, DL PM, UA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, probably some others
Posts: 4,170
In addition to what MSPeconomist laid out, you should probably push DL to give you some sort of mileage compensation as well.
rylan, strickerj and emma dog like this.
steveholt is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 12:05 pm
  #4  
Moderator: Hyatt, American Express; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 19,153
There's also a DL EC261 thread: Regulation (EC) 261/2004 Delayed flight - Delta Air Lines Definitive Thread
Zorak is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 12:07 pm
  #5  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,497
Originally Posted by steveholt
In addition to what MSPeconomist laid out, you should probably push DL to give you some sort of mileage compensation as well.
That would be a customer service gesture, not compensation. Don't use the word compensation when asking.
DiamondMile, becks1 and Spiff like this.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 12:07 pm
  #6  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Right behind you.
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

Were you given the option to be rebooked in PS on another flight or a different day? DL should have been willing to do this. When did you learn of the aircraft change and resulting downgrade?
I found out about 90 minutes before boarding at the KLM lounge. No rebooking options were offered.
TankerT is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 12:12 pm
  #7  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,497
Originally Posted by TankerT
I found out about 90 minutes before boarding at the KLM lounge. No rebooking options were offered.
That's in line with how European carriers tend to handle these situations, although from AMS there should have been alternative routings back to the USA (and maybe a delayed arrival, which can also result in EC 261 claims). Airlines like BA/AF/LH seem to prefer to downgrade someone from IFC to coach, rather than downgrading one passenger from IFC to business class, and someone else from business class to premium economy, and still someone else from premium economy to coach. They'd rather have one unhappy customer than three, and one EC 261 payment requirement.
becks1 and Hoyaheel like this.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Sep 15, 2022, 12:22 pm
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,241
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
That's in line with how European carriers tend to handle these situations, although from AMS there should have been alternative routings back to the USA (and maybe a delayed arrival, which can also result in EC 261 claims). Airlines like BA/AF/LH seem to prefer to downgrade someone from IFC to coach, rather than downgrading one passenger from IFC to business class, and someone else from business class to premium economy, and still someone else from premium economy to coach. They'd rather have one unhappy customer than three, and one EC 261 payment requirement.
While sucky, it's a better from a CS perspective. As you note 1 unhappy passenger instead of 2 or 3.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 5:49 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: California
Programs: DL
Posts: 87
Downgrade at LHR

I was downgraded to coach from bizclass on DL LHR-JFK when a group of NFL referees and other officials boarded.

I was actually seated and enjoying a preflight nip when a VS rep boarded (DL has no local staff since they co-own VS) who informed me that I had been bumped.

Never happened to me before, but then again Iíve had several things happen to me at LHR that never happened to me before (or since).

All sorts of complications: My company was due the $100 or so UK bizclass seat tax plus fare difference. Meanwhile I refused to move until I was promised an entire middle row so that all 6í8Ē of me could sleep the entire flight. Plus 5,000 Skymiles plus a systemwide upgrade.

The whole process took maybe 20 minutes and two or three VS agents in the phone to ATL to negotiate.

I slept the entire flight and never knew the difference. No complaints.


Originally Posted by TankerT
I was booked on a Europe to US flight today in Premium select. It was a cash fare. Due to an equipment change, the aircraft didnít have Premium Select, and Comfort+ was full so I was put in Economy. Not exactly happy. But, not much I could do.

I understand that there should be a fare difference refund. And, probably some other compensation offer.

I know they will try to make this work in a manner that works best for them. Anyone have experience with this and have any suggestions as to what I should ask for? Either by experience or any specific EU clauses that might be in play?

There was no impact to schedule.

Thanks.
Goodoldflyer and RobOnLI like this.
RIP-PSA is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 7:15 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Gold, Marriott Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by RIP-PSA
I was downgraded to coach from bizclass on DL LHR-JFK when a group of NFL referees and other officials boarded.

I was actually seated and enjoying a preflight nip when a VS rep boarded (DL has no local staff since they co-own VS) who informed me that I had been bumped.

Never happened to me before, but then again Iíve had several things happen to me at LHR that never happened to me before (or since).

All sorts of complications: My company was due the $100 or so UK bizclass seat tax plus fare difference. Meanwhile I refused to move until I was promised an entire middle row so that all 6í8Ē of me could sleep the entire flight. Plus 5,000 Skymiles plus a systemwide upgrade.

The whole process took maybe 20 minutes and two or three VS agents in the phone to ATL to negotiate.

I slept the entire flight and never knew the difference. No complaints.
Why did you even accept the downgrade?
atldiamond is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 7:18 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,523
Are Downgrades Becoming the Norm for DL?

Either this is becoming more widely reported/posted about on FT or this overbooking the D1 cabin or Premium cabin and downgrading passengers is becoming the norm for DL.

I was recently called just over a week ago and informed I was involuntarily downgraded from D1 to Y about 3 weeks ahead of my flight. Most alternate options were sold out and the only one that DL could rebook me on was a less than desirable option with a way shorter flight in D1 but the only option in which I could keep D1 and instead of getting home mid-morning, I'm now departing 4-5 hours later and getting home about 5-6 hours later. I was offered no compensation after switching to the new flights. I did write in the following day and am still waiting on a response to see if DL will offer any compensation (miles or voucher).
ATOBTTR is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 8:27 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 814
I am curious if this is happening agnostically or if status plays into these actions. Are there Platinums/Diamonds getting bumped? o

If they are bumping everyone and using fare as a criteria that is ominous. Status is supposed to insulate from this type of behavior and it likely indicates that DL is indeed going revenue based on its decisions.
FlyingBeanCounter is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 8:33 am
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,523
Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter
I am curious if this is happening agnostically or if status plays into these actions. Are there Platinums/Diamonds getting bumped? o

If they are bumping everyone and using fare as a criteria that is ominous. Status is supposed to insulate from this type of behavior and it likely indicates that DL is indeed going revenue based on its decisions.
In my case, Iím a PM and my wife is a GM. We were on a ticket booked with miles so Iím not sure if that was the factor that made us the low-passengers on the totem pole. But our PM/GM status didnít keep us from being the ones who got involuntarily downgraded.
ATOBTTR is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 8:38 am
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,646
Originally Posted by ATOBTTR
I was recently called just over a week ago and informed I was involuntarily downgraded from D1 to Y about 3 weeks ahead of my flight. Most alternate options were sold out and the only one that DL could rebook me on was a less than desirable option with a way shorter flight in D1 but the only option in which I could keep D1 and instead of getting home mid-morning, I'm now departing 4-5 hours later and getting home about 5-6 hours later. I was offered no compensation after switching to the new flights. I did write in the following day and am still waiting on a response to see if DL will offer any compensation (miles or voucher).
I'm honestly not sure what the official rules are (IIRC the DOT doesn't care in the slightest about premium cabin pax), but I would at least file a DOT complaint even if it's a dead end - openly refusing to honor a ticket instead of soliciting volunteers is simply absurd.
Goodoldflyer likes this.
findark is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2022, 10:46 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: ba silver
Posts: 748
I would have refused the downgrade and ask to be rebooked. This is ridiculous. I don't know of any law that requires airlines to give priority to sports referees.

New laws need to be passed to make it as expensive and inconvenient as possible for airlines to engage in this behavior.

Downgrades should always be done by asking for volunteers. I' m sure DL would have found someone if you offer enough money. You will get volunteers for a $ 10000 voucher.

If it doesn't work then airlines should be required to downgrade based on reverse order.. last in first out, with the downgrade being treated as IDB, that is payable at 4◊ the fare difference. Also, at the passenger's sole discretion airlines should be required to reroute on the airline of the passenger' s choice regardless of cost.
stevendorechester is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.