Delta/Boeing 737-MAX Plane Transaction Thread (Consolidated)
Mar 18, 2022, 7:36 am
#1
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Delta/Boeing 737-MAX Plane Transaction Thread (Consolidated)
Deal could be announced in the next month for up to 100 MAX 10s
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...es-2022-03-18/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...es-2022-03-18/
Mar 18, 2022, 8:07 am
#2
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Or this is a well-planted, public bargaining chip to get a better deal or faster delivery date for some 321's
Considering BA's stock right now is only up 1.5% on the day, the market does not fully believe the rumor.
Considering BA's stock right now is only up 1.5% on the day, the market does not fully believe the rumor.
Mar 18, 2022, 10:13 am
#3
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I’ll believe it when I see it! Hope they orders it soon. This is first Delta orders 737-MAX10. Alaska and United Airlines who already orders the 737-MAX10.
Mar 18, 2022, 10:16 am
#4
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I think this transaction is inevitable. DL likes to bargain shop and Boeing has an incentive to keep DL from slowly becoming an all Airbus shop.
Plus as noted, DL benefits from keeping Boeing in the fold for future negotiations with Airbus
Plus as noted, DL benefits from keeping Boeing in the fold for future negotiations with Airbus
Mar 18, 2022, 11:06 am
#5
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I don't know about the MAX 10...unless DL thinks it can get a deal due to some possible delays
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ed-for-max-10/
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ed-for-max-10/
Mar 18, 2022, 11:14 am
#6
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I don't know about the MAX 10...unless DL thinks it can get a deal due to some possible delays
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ed-for-max-10/
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ed-for-max-10/
Seattle Times
That would allow the MAX 10, like previous MAX models, to be certified without meeting the latest safety standard that governs the design of cockpit crew alerts that warn pilots of some system malfunction during flight.
That would allow the MAX 10, like previous MAX models, to be certified without meeting the latest safety standard that governs the design of cockpit crew alerts that warn pilots of some system malfunction during flight.
Yea because if there's any plane that needs or should be even asking for safety exemptions, it's the 737 MAX line.....
(
emoji not directed at kop84 or the Seattle Times)
Mar 18, 2022, 11:27 am
#7
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I was thinking the same thing but couldn't figure out the right way to say it...There's going to be a noticeable number of people who aren't going to want to fly on any MAX for a long time, much less one that's got a SAFETY EXEMPTION
Mar 18, 2022, 11:31 am
#8
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Money and profits over safety, they have learned nothing
I hope Delta sticks with the 321 and 320/220 family for future narrow body fleet.
Mar 18, 2022, 11:48 am
#9
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Seattle Times
The FAA safety engineer said “there may be a good case for granting the extension” for the MAX 10.
For one thing, he said, the MAX 10’s new triple-redundant Angle of Attack system means the risk of the multiple erroneous crew alerts that caused so much confusion in the crash scenarios is now much reduced.
In this respect, the MAX 10 should be safer than the previous generation 737 models with their solid safety record, the engineer said.
In addition, he said, changing the MAX 10 crew alerts would make the jet’s cockpit instrument system different from that of the MAX 8 and 9, introducing potential confusion among pilots for airlines like Alaska Airlines that have all three models on order.
A pilot might fly a MAX 9 one day and a MAX 10 the next. Confusion over the differing styles of alerts might create higher risk than not upgrading the system and keeping a common cockpit.
The FAA safety engineer said “there may be a good case for granting the extension” for the MAX 10.
For one thing, he said, the MAX 10’s new triple-redundant Angle of Attack system means the risk of the multiple erroneous crew alerts that caused so much confusion in the crash scenarios is now much reduced.
In this respect, the MAX 10 should be safer than the previous generation 737 models with their solid safety record, the engineer said.
In addition, he said, changing the MAX 10 crew alerts would make the jet’s cockpit instrument system different from that of the MAX 8 and 9, introducing potential confusion among pilots for airlines like Alaska Airlines that have all three models on order.
A pilot might fly a MAX 9 one day and a MAX 10 the next. Confusion over the differing styles of alerts might create higher risk than not upgrading the system and keeping a common cockpit.
I won't argue that Boeing hasn't built some great aircraft - indeed they have. But Boeing should have to earn the public's (and regulator's) trust again. They shouldn't be able to just buy it.
Mar 18, 2022, 11:54 am
#10
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I don't know about the MAX 10...unless DL thinks it can get a deal due to some possible delays
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ed-for-max-10/
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ed-for-max-10/
....accidents and the failures of oversight of the MAX spurred Congress to pass the Aircraft Safety and Certification Reform Act in late 2020 to reform the FAA oversight process.
That law requires any airplane certified after Dec. 31 this year to comply with the latest FAA crew alerting regulation. The 737 is the only Boeing jet that doesn’t meet the standard.
Every other current Boeing airplane has what’s called an Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System, or EICAS, that complies with the FAA regulation.
That law requires any airplane certified after Dec. 31 this year to comply with the latest FAA crew alerting regulation. The 737 is the only Boeing jet that doesn’t meet the standard.
Every other current Boeing airplane has what’s called an Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System, or EICAS, that complies with the FAA regulation.
Downfall: The Case Against Boeing
Mar 18, 2022, 12:00 pm
#11
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Another part of this article that is mind-blowing...yet not entirely surprising
This is happening in broad daylight, yet it feels like a scene out of the Netflix documentary
A regulation was put in place because of the failure of MAX certification...now Boeing is trying to hurry and certify before that exact rule takes place!
This is happening in broad daylight, yet it feels like a scene out of the Netflix documentary
A regulation was put in place because of the failure of MAX certification...now Boeing is trying to hurry and certify before that exact rule takes place!
Mar 18, 2022, 12:02 pm
#12
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Sadly this wasn't always the culture at Boeing and I hope the exemption gets denied too. But I find this even scarier, especially since it's from the FAA:
I actually get the argument about minor differences in cockpit layout and alerts and such between a 737 MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10 causing confusion and being a safety issue among operators with all 3 aircraft variants in their fleet, such as AS. What I would like to know is why the answer (besides "it's too expensive", as even stated in the Seattle Times article) to supposedly make this safer overall is by making the MAX 10 in a sense less safe by not having to comply with newer, more strict safety standards, rather than requiring the MAX 8 and MAX 9 to be made more safe and meet the updated regulations, again, especially for a line of aircraft that doesn't have a stellar safety record (nor are the FAA's hands completely clean here either).
I won't argue that Boeing hasn't built some great aircraft - indeed they have. But Boeing should have to earn the public's (and regulator's) trust again. They shouldn't be able to just buy it.
I actually get the argument about minor differences in cockpit layout and alerts and such between a 737 MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10 causing confusion and being a safety issue among operators with all 3 aircraft variants in their fleet, such as AS. What I would like to know is why the answer (besides "it's too expensive", as even stated in the Seattle Times article) to supposedly make this safer overall is by making the MAX 10 in a sense less safe by not having to comply with newer, more strict safety standards, rather than requiring the MAX 8 and MAX 9 to be made more safe and meet the updated regulations, again, especially for a line of aircraft that doesn't have a stellar safety record (nor are the FAA's hands completely clean here either).
I won't argue that Boeing hasn't built some great aircraft - indeed they have. But Boeing should have to earn the public's (and regulator's) trust again. They shouldn't be able to just buy it.
If the issue is that MAX 10 would not sync up with older MAX 8/9 alerts that do not meet the most up to date safety requirements, the answer should be to bring all MAX models up to the new standard.
Yes it would be a hit to the bottom line, but considering their track record, and place with public trust it is the right course of action.
Mar 18, 2022, 12:13 pm
#13
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I have strong opinions on the MAX story at BA. But that it is not what needs be discussed here.
For me, the 739 is DL's worst plane. I doubt the 10 is any better. From a pax perspective, the 32x wins by a mile.
For me, the 739 is DL's worst plane. I doubt the 10 is any better. From a pax perspective, the 32x wins by a mile.
Mar 18, 2022, 12:28 pm
#14
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The MAX is notorious, but I wonder how many people will refuse to fly on the MAX 10 (if operated by DL) versus the ones that will accept it if the fare is cheaper or the schedule better. I also wonder whether employers can force employees to fly the MAX 10 for business travel. [A previous employer had a policy of not insisting on a particular airline due to liability concerns.]
Mar 18, 2022, 12:35 pm
#15
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Deal could be announced in the next month for up to 100 MAX 10s
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...es-2022-03-18/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...es-2022-03-18/