MSPeconomist

Be sure to read the blog and its comments regarding the earlier DL diversion. The link is in post # 4 above.

MSPeconomist

EZE seems to require some minor level of special pilot training. Ages ago I sat next to an A330 pilot on the ATL-EZE DL flight on a 767, IIRC we had seats 1C and 1G in the center section, and when we were chatting a bit during dinner service he told me that he was riding along to observe the landing in preparation for flying the A330 there himself. He went to the cockpit about an hour before landing. This was a shortly before DL put the A330 on this route for high season and the flight would have been late August, but I'm afraid to try to guess the year.

sethb

The crew has mixed with people coming from Canada who were not cleared. That wasn't the case for the diverted flight.

WindowSeatFlyer

[At Canadian airport with preclearance], the crews stay onboard or on the jet bridge, and don’t have to go through CBP clearance upon return to the US.

Since you wrote “upon return to the USA”, you're talking about a US-Canada-US routing with a quick turnaround at the Canadian airport, not Canada-US-Canada routing with a turnaround at a US airport.

sethb

So I can smuggle anything from Canada to the US by taking one of those flights and giving it to a crew member who doesn't need to go through Customs on arrival? Convenient.

flyerCO

Strange as US requires crews to clear when doing direct turns in the US. I thouhht at one point they did have to clear CBSA/CBP before returning. I know AM crews hated this flying into the US. Say MEX-SAT-MEX, direct turn, crew had to get off clear US immigration and security, then get back on. They couldn't just stay onboard the plane.

miguel0881

This is 100% wrong. Of course they clear. Do you have any source that indicates otherwise? I know in the case of Porter crews on direct turns in the US, they deplane, clear immigration/customs, and hoof it back to the gate for departure since YTZ does not have US pre-clearance.

WindowSeatFlyer

I asked a UA FA making a direct turn at YYZ if she had to go through Canadian arrival and then US preclearance, and she told me that as long as the crew stayed onboard, they could return to the US without needing to go through immigration at the US arrival airport. Think about it, if all passengers who went through US preclearance at a Canadian airport can arrive as “domestic” passengers at the US airport, exactly how would the CBP enforce immigration checks for the crew?
Now you’re just mixing things up... You talk about crews having to go through US immigration when making direct turns in the US, and then try to apply that to YTZ...

I was talking about flights from the US making a quick turnaround at Canadian airport and returning to the US, not flights from Mexico/Canada turning around at a US airport.
US airports, with their lack of “International” transfer areas and requiring everyone to clear US immigration even if someone is arriving on an international flight and leaving on another international flight, work differently from airports/countries that allow passengers to transfer between international flights without clearing immigration and entering the country.

Since you wouldn’t be able to meet that crew member until after you passed through US preclearance, exactly what “smuggling” would you accomplish by giving an item to the crew member instead of simply keeping it in your possession?

HkCaGu

This is more about CBSA's desire. US crew leaving a plane in Canada must go through CBSA and therefore CATSA and USCBP before coming back to another plane returning to the US. They cannot walk out of the plane into the pre-cleared departure area. I guess most flights have crew turn around inside a plane, but strangely some airlines have crew not staying with the same plane doing a Canada turn. On UA SFO-YVR I had seen a pilot deadheading (probably same plane though) and my UA/SKW YVR-LAX was delayed for a few minutes despite incoming LAX-YVR being early because someone new was joining the plane from another incoming flight from the US.

miguel0881

That could be a special rule for Canadian pre-clearance airports. I do not believe it applies to any other direct turn markets.

Not at all. The original discussion was whether someone arriving in the US from an international destination must be screened. The answer is yes, as the experience of PD flight crews making direct turns in the US from YTZ (a non pre-clearance airport) shows. Flight crews making direct turns from YYZ and other similar destinations also presumably pass through US pre-clearance.

GagaPilot

Being a pilot based out of ANC, I have had training in several special airports up here. JNU was one. Others were ADQ, VDZ, GBH, PPC, and SNP. I would agree that since JNU is a "special" airport, and most likely the checklist called for a landing at "nearest suitable airport" and NOT "land immediately at nearest suitable airport" that YXY would be more appropriate than JNU in this case. Had the checklist called for the "land immediately" directive, or had the situation been more dire, then JNU would've definitely been an option.

flyerCO

I understand what you were talking about. However I was pointing out it made no sense that crew doing a direct turn at a US airport must clear, but crew doing direct turn at pre-clearance doesn't. Think of it, if they stay onboard they would still need to clear if there was no preclearance.


Last I knew they had to clear, but that i haven't paid attention in awhile if that is still true.

UnevenGray

The rule is US CBP Short Time Crew Turn Around procedures or the "90 Minute Rule." Unfortunately, I cannot find any publicly documentation for it.

The rule is that if you are a US crew on the ground at an international station for less than 90 minutes doing a flight US-international-US, you do not have to clear immigration. A delay that pushes the flight to spend 91 or more minutes on the ground requires the crew to clear immigration.