Delta has a list of focus cities, and some are surprising
Jun 5, 2019, 9:58 am
#91
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Jun 5, 2019, 10:02 am
#92
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Maybe ORD is two things...first it's being added as a destination from focus cities & smaller hubs so it's almost sneaking up as a focus city.
Second, if it seems like DL is playing offense in ORD it makes UA/AA and just across town WN play Defense. And they probably aren't looking for or ready for that if they're also gearing up in AUS, SJC, BNA etc.
Second, if it seems like DL is playing offense in ORD it makes UA/AA and just across town WN play Defense. And they probably aren't looking for or ready for that if they're also gearing up in AUS, SJC, BNA etc.
I think the thing with ORD is that American has always been kinda meh there since 9/11. In the early 2000s, the Aarpey regime really cut back on flights from ORD to smaller cities in the Eastern time zone, downgrading a lot of MD80/F100 routes such as ALB to a mix of MD80/E145 and then eventually just E145. That's been rectified in recent years with CR7s, but it hurt them long term. They just don't do anything exciting at ORD. It's the type of place that Doug Parker loves to abandon in favor of his fortress hubs. And DL is lurking to jump in as much as T5 will allow them to do should AA start to wander away. [DL at Midway is constrained to three gates (A5, A7, A10), which limits them to just ATL/MSP/DTW operations, plus they run a lot of sports team charters through there.]
DL/Skyteam isn't flying any non-hub flights out of ORD yet. Just flights to hubs and focus cities, and a fair amount of CR9/E75 flying. RDU has settled into 1xCR9, 2xCR7. BOS looks to start as all E75/E70, just like LaGuardia is. JFK has been 3-4 CR9/day since probably right when the CR9s were launched. And several SkyTeam partners fly to ORD - AF, KL, AM, KE, and I think one of the Chinese ones.
ORD-LAX is the obvious gap to fill next. If they start ORD-AUS or ORD-SJC, then it's going to be a war. The other big DL hole for ORD-based east coast fliers is DCA, I think DL could do well if they flew CR9s 2x/day TueWedFri and 3x/day Mon/Thu, timed for business in DCA. AA is notiously bad for evening flight delays on DCA-ORD, and there's not much more cranky than a bunch of Capitol Hill folks who are delayed going home for the weekend.
Jun 5, 2019, 10:08 am
#93
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Once daily D1 service wouldn't justify a SkyClub tho. I think you need something like 4x daily D1. I don't see it. DL tends to focus domestic D1 on the most competitive routes. So that means both AA and UA would have to get into the game also with multiple daily transcons of their own. I really really don't see it.
Jun 5, 2019, 11:02 am
#94
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Once daily D1 service wouldn't justify a SkyClub tho. I think you need something like 4x daily D1. I don't see it. DL tends to focus domestic D1 on the most competitive routes. So that means both AA and UA would have to get into the game also with multiple daily transcons of their own. I really really don't see it.
and only then, maybe, a SC. Baby steps 
Jun 5, 2019, 11:14 am
#95
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Once daily D1 service wouldn't justify a SkyClub tho. I think you need something like 4x daily D1. I don't see it. DL tends to focus domestic D1 on the most competitive routes. So that means both AA and UA would have to get into the game also with multiple daily transcons of their own. I really really don't see it.
Jun 5, 2019, 11:20 am
#96
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Jun 5, 2019, 11:48 am
#97
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I think it has a lot to do with cities where DL is trying to increase their market share. Most of the new and renovated sky clubs have been at airports where DL has a clear competitor they're going after (AA at PHX, WN at BNA, etc.)
Jun 5, 2019, 2:13 pm
#100
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To clarify my earlier comment re: PVG, was talking about UA's SFO-PVG route (2x daily 787s). Versus making folks connect via LAX.
Now, on the topic of connections/routings, RDU makes perfect sense to allow routings through; it's 400 mi from ATL and while smaller planes mean more cost per seat mile the smaller size of the airport/potentially shorter flight time/potentially shorter reasonable connection time may make a routing worth it.
Whereas, sure, you *could* connect through BOS but it's the wrong place on the map for anything other than international. Same with JFK/LGA; they are and will be heavily O&D focused 'til the end of time. Which explains why Delta hasn't been scrambling to get out of JFK T2.
By contrast, SJC might actually be in a decent spot for connections in that area (again, avoiding LAX), and Delta already carries a pretty good chunk of passenger traffic considering how few destinations they currently serve. When you combine mainline and regional (since Compass exclusively flies for Delta), they're actually bigger than AS there, despite all the destinations AS serves, so if DL wants to take the fight to AS in yet another city there's nothing stopping them.
As for AUS, I doubt we'll get used for connections much. Yes, we're central, but from what I hear DL only wants five or six gates, and they have plenty of O&D traffic to pull from...and we're pretty far south (though no worse than HOU/IAH). Maybe SJA-AUS-RDU would work though
s it stands, upgauging seems to be happening quite quickly. RDU is back to a CR9, and 717s are gone from both DTW and MSP, at least for now. ATL is all-A321, and basically the only actual hub served by a regional jet now is SLC (and even then the majority of flights are mainline). Seems like DL is content to bump up aircraft size as soon as they hit 3x daily service to anywhere, rather than adding frequency, and of course longer routes get bumped up sooner than that because they're competing against full-sized planes flying relatively rarely. Maybe their plan is to siphon off what's currently connecting traffic into 1x daily point-to-point routes and bump those hub routes back down size-wise as a result...though that's riskier to do now that they're competing with F9/NK/WN on basically all of them.
Now, on the topic of connections/routings, RDU makes perfect sense to allow routings through; it's 400 mi from ATL and while smaller planes mean more cost per seat mile the smaller size of the airport/potentially shorter flight time/potentially shorter reasonable connection time may make a routing worth it.
Whereas, sure, you *could* connect through BOS but it's the wrong place on the map for anything other than international. Same with JFK/LGA; they are and will be heavily O&D focused 'til the end of time. Which explains why Delta hasn't been scrambling to get out of JFK T2.
By contrast, SJC might actually be in a decent spot for connections in that area (again, avoiding LAX), and Delta already carries a pretty good chunk of passenger traffic considering how few destinations they currently serve. When you combine mainline and regional (since Compass exclusively flies for Delta), they're actually bigger than AS there, despite all the destinations AS serves, so if DL wants to take the fight to AS in yet another city there's nothing stopping them.
As for AUS, I doubt we'll get used for connections much. Yes, we're central, but from what I hear DL only wants five or six gates, and they have plenty of O&D traffic to pull from...and we're pretty far south (though no worse than HOU/IAH). Maybe SJA-AUS-RDU would work though
s it stands, upgauging seems to be happening quite quickly. RDU is back to a CR9, and 717s are gone from both DTW and MSP, at least for now. ATL is all-A321, and basically the only actual hub served by a regional jet now is SLC (and even then the majority of flights are mainline). Seems like DL is content to bump up aircraft size as soon as they hit 3x daily service to anywhere, rather than adding frequency, and of course longer routes get bumped up sooner than that because they're competing against full-sized planes flying relatively rarely. Maybe their plan is to siphon off what's currently connecting traffic into 1x daily point-to-point routes and bump those hub routes back down size-wise as a result...though that's riskier to do now that they're competing with F9/NK/WN on basically all of them.
Jun 5, 2019, 2:52 pm
#101
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Sorry, missed that CP has started flying for AA. And inconveniently forgot how much of SJC's AS footprint is actually OO (or Horizon? They do E75s now too right?).
FWIW AUS has the same linear terminal problem as SJC.
Good to know re: connections through RDU. My previous theory aside, that makes sense If they had enough connections to upgauge they should've been running those through ATL in the first place.
In other news, where did all the 717s go? Are they back in ATL doing short haul?
FWIW AUS has the same linear terminal problem as SJC.
Good to know re: connections through RDU. My previous theory aside, that makes sense If they had enough connections to upgauge they should've been running those through ATL in the first place.
In other news, where did all the 717s go? Are they back in ATL doing short haul?
Jun 5, 2019, 4:53 pm
#102
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Jun 5, 2019, 5:23 pm
#103
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Jun 5, 2019, 6:13 pm
#104
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I'll throw out another one. "Focus" (as is being used by DL) refers to marketing efforts, not to current operations.
DL: "We need to focus more marketing efforts on certain cities."
FT: "This makes no sense; some cities have more frequent and diverse flight schedules than those!"
Jun 5, 2019, 6:58 pm
#105
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Actually, All Nippon Airways, not Spirit Airlines. It's NH, not NK. NK is for Spirit Airlines and NH is for All Nippon Airways.