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How to analyze whether to buy an upgrade to F with money or miles

How to analyze whether to buy an upgrade to F with money or miles

Old May 17, 2019, 9:05 am
  #16  
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Thank you all for the help. One additional question... does the cost of the upgrade vary by elite level or is it the same for everyone? Can someone with no status upgrade for the same price as a PM?
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Old May 17, 2019, 1:13 pm
  #17  
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The cost typically depends on the price of your underlying coach ticket. Usually, they're just quoting you the fare difference between what you paid and the first class fare. And then they convert that into miles at just under $0.011/mile. It's not always exact though.

And just to add/clarify what was posted above, this redemption value is about -15% lower than the $0.013 average you get for full-on award tickets. But you do get the extra MQMs/RDMs as a partial offset.
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Old May 17, 2019, 1:26 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by tennessetom



Probably right about 1500 total. You can login and do a dummy booking to get the exact number based on your status
Mile upgrades earn bonus MQMs? I thought only the cash upgrades did. Asking, not stating....
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Old May 17, 2019, 1:58 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Gig103
Mile upgrades earn bonus MQMs? I thought only the cash upgrades did. Asking, not stating....
I'm pretty certain these "pay with miles" type upgrades are actually changing the underlying booking class (e.g., to Z), so you end up with a regular first class ticket, and thus in addition to the MQMs, you also then get SDC with no inventory restrictions.

The old style mileage upgrade awards, which they now no longer offer in the Americas, did NOT get you bonus miles or any other consideration, those would book into like OU or something that was an award class.
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Old May 17, 2019, 2:17 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
The cost typically depends on the price of your underlying coach ticket. Usually, they're just quoting you the fare difference between what you paid and the first class fare. And then they convert that into miles at just under $0.011/mile. It's not always exact though.

And just to add/clarify what was posted above, this redemption value is about -15% lower than the $0.013 average you get for full-on award tickets. But you do get the extra MQMs/RDMs as a partial offset.
Don't believe original cost/fare or fare diff has anything to do with it. Bought two tix for DTW-BWI a couple weeks ago and price has remained a consistent $74/6900 miles each way despite the fact that there is no longer Z inventory on outbound flight (raising FC fare for that flight by $70). Flight is now I9, so still plenty of seats available up front. Also, the purchased outbound and return fares are different. Outbound is a T fare and return is a V. If it is based on original price/fare, why is the upgrade price the same in both directions? Seems pretty clear they have fixed price levels with buckets for these upgrades, but the bucket inventory for upgrades does not always correlate with what's open in the revenue buckets.

Last edited by xliioper; May 17, 2019 at 2:25 pm
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Old May 17, 2019, 2:51 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
I'm pretty certain these "pay with miles" type upgrades are actually changing the underlying booking class (e.g., to Z), so you end up with a regular first class ticket, and thus in addition to the MQMs, you also then get SDC with no inventory restrictions.

The old style mileage upgrade awards, which they now no longer offer in the Americas, did NOT get you bonus miles or any other consideration, those would book into like OU or something that was an award class.
Can confirm this. Taking the FCM offer pre T-24 and using miles to "pay" for it gets you the MQM bonus.
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Old May 17, 2019, 3:02 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by tennessetom
I think the answer depends on the situation. I have more miles than I will ever use so I would tend to use miles. I tenD to upgrade with miles or money towards the end of the year in order to push up my mqms. I would upgrade rather than hoping for a free upgrade because that route can be and often is full in first. Older people willing to pay because they dont fly often and need the comfort a family or two off to dis. So if you have the miles or money I wouldnt wait unless you really dont much care.
IN general holding enormous amounts of miles is a bad decision. Valuation over time, etc.

Also, I'll take some of these miles. transfer fee is on me. haha. I'm serious. PM me if interested.

M
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Old May 17, 2019, 10:26 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by xliioper
Don't believe original cost/fare or fare diff has anything to do with it. Bought two tix for DTW-BWI a couple weeks ago and price has remained a consistent $74/6900 miles each way despite the fact that there is no longer Z inventory on outbound flight (raising FC fare for that flight by $70).
It's possible it's based on the difference at the time of purchase.

Also, the purchased outbound and return fares are different. Outbound is a T fare and return is a V. If it is based on original price/fare, why is the upgrade price the same in both directions?
The domestic first class fares are usually now constructed as a coach fare plus an up-charge to the first class. That up-charge is often consistent across different underlying coach fares. It may vary depending on whether the available first class inventory is Z, I, D, etc. (and it may not).
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Old May 18, 2019, 9:50 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by yogimax
Thank you all for the help. One additional question... does the cost of the upgrade vary by elite level or is it the same for everyone? Can someone with no status upgrade for the same price as a PM?
Don't believe anyone has answered this question. If it's the same for everyone, it seems like a real diminishing of benefits for GM, PM and DM as their chances for complimentary upgrades are greatly diminished by those with no status.
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Old May 18, 2019, 11:01 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by yogimax
Don't believe anyone has answered this question. If it's the same for everyone, it seems like a real diminishing of benefits for GM, PM and DM as their chances for complimentary upgrades are greatly diminished by those with no status.
I have yet to see anything that it indicates that it varies by status. I've flown with wife and son at different times (both together and on separate fares) and they've never had an offer that was different than mine. Neither has status (I'm a DM). This includes times when they've been on FF tickets and I've been on revenue ones.
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Old May 18, 2019, 12:24 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by xliioper
I have yet to see anything that it indicates that it varies by status. I've flown with wife and son at different times (both together and on separate fares) and they've never had an offer that was different than mine. Neither has status (I'm a DM). This includes times when they've been on FF tickets and I've been on revenue ones.
One time I flew with my gf, different pnr's, everything else the same. I was PL, she was no status. Her FCM offer was ~$100 less than mine. I called and we were both able to upgrade at her lower offer. This was ~2 years ago, no idea if things still vary like this.
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Old May 18, 2019, 2:30 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by yogimax
Don't believe anyone has answered this question.
I effectively did.
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Old May 18, 2019, 3:55 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by MarkCron
One time I flew with my gf, different pnr's, everything else the same. I was PL, she was no status. Her FCM offer was ~$100 less than mine. I called and we were both able to upgrade at her lower offer. This was ~2 years ago, no idea if things still vary like this.
They system was changed around May of 2017. Previous to that, I would almost never see an FCM offer on X/V fares which I fly typically. After that, I don't think I've had a flight I haven't seen an offer. This was also when they started offer bundle deals and they marketed them more aggressively. Prior to that, it was pretty clear that original fare paid was a factor. Rene has often posted the $9 offer on a Y fare that was purchased during the Boxing Day error fares. I have seen zero evidence that original purchased fare now makes a difference.

Here's a link from when the new system was first noted --

Strange FCM Offers and Seat Map Issues

Just purchased a ticket for my wife on exact same flights I'm on for DTW-BWI in June as a test . My fares were T and V ($253.60 total). No more T on outbound, so she got a K and V for $288.60 total. The FC fares are I and Z with $462.60 total ($174 fare difference). And, yet, DL is showing the exact same $74 upgrade price in each direction for her flights that I'm getting for mine. Note that her upgrade price ($148 roundtrip), is not the same difference ($174 roundtrip) as buying FC at time of purchase.

Last edited by xliioper; May 18, 2019 at 4:26 pm
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Old May 27, 2019, 11:56 am
  #29  
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Update

Just received two complimentary upgrades five days before flight. Interestingly, seat map shows only two left in F.
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Old May 27, 2019, 1:17 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by yogimax
Update

Just received two complimentary upgrades five days before flight. Interestingly, seat map shows only two left in F.
Route and aircraft type (number of seats in FC cabin)?

My impression is that when doing free elite upgrades before the gate, DL tries to save four FC seats on many business oriented flights on aircraft with 16 FC seats, but fewer (two I suspect) on less business oriented routes on aircraft with 12 FC seats such as the 717.
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