Basic Eco is now available on awards!
#61




Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VPS, previously SEA and PIT
Programs: DL Diamond/1MM, Hilton Diamond, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 1,340
#62




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
If I'm being honest, if it wasn't for the SDC benefit, Delta could probably take Skymiles out back and shoot it and I'd barely notice.
I think the biggest complaints I have at this point are (1) they don't just make the peg between SkyPesos and ticket price explicit and insist on being "sneaky" about it while fooling nobody about the end goal and (2) I would either like the peg to be a bit over $0.01; a bonus for paid First bookings (a la Southwest giving more points for Business Select); OR I'd like to see the elite earning bonuses bumped up a bit.
I think the biggest complaints I have at this point are (1) they don't just make the peg between SkyPesos and ticket price explicit and insist on being "sneaky" about it while fooling nobody about the end goal and (2) I would either like the peg to be a bit over $0.01; a bonus for paid First bookings (a la Southwest giving more points for Business Select); OR I'd like to see the elite earning bonuses bumped up a bit.
#63
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Platinum, etc etc etc
Posts: 2,341
DL is giving us (us being the ENTIRE flying public) what we want. We want the cheapest possible seat but will argue and complain about bag fees, change fees, cancellation fees, etc.
we (again not necessarily this forum but the traveling public) asked for the cheapest ticket and this is what we got. If people were not buying these E fares then DL would have gotten rid of the option a long time ago.
we (again not necessarily this forum but the traveling public) asked for the cheapest ticket and this is what we got. If people were not buying these E fares then DL would have gotten rid of the option a long time ago.
#64




Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,437
DL is giving us (us being the ENTIRE flying public) what we want. We want the cheapest possible seat but will argue and complain about bag fees, change fees, cancellation fees, etc.
we (again not necessarily this forum but the traveling public) asked for the cheapest ticket and this is what we got. If people were not buying these E fares then DL would have gotten rid of the option a long time ago.
we (again not necessarily this forum but the traveling public) asked for the cheapest ticket and this is what we got. If people were not buying these E fares then DL would have gotten rid of the option a long time ago.
Hmmmm. Only partial truth here. I don't think the entire flying public wanted a oligopoly in which much of these customer unfriendly changes can happen due to lack of competition.
#65




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
I also think it's fair to say that while the "average passenger" might be blamed for choosing to fly the cheapest fare handy, you cannot really fault them for the merger process or the fact that new entrants into the field often have to go through hell to get started up (witness the saga of the VX startup) or to "break in" to various markets (for an extreme example, DAL's gate limits basically mean that nobody but WN can do anything useful there).
The real shame is that more than a few mergers weren't so much opportunistic expansion mixed with hedge fund shenanigans (as was the case with the AS/VX merger) but were functionally "rescues" of troubled airlines on one side of the equation (e.g. America West taking over US Airways and then American). I suspect that this, in turn, was a function of the history of airline bankruptcies which scared off any external "white knight" bidders. I think 6-8 "large-ish" airlines is probably about the right number (versus four now...WN is probably set to overtake AA in the next year in terms of pax count).
The real shame is that more than a few mergers weren't so much opportunistic expansion mixed with hedge fund shenanigans (as was the case with the AS/VX merger) but were functionally "rescues" of troubled airlines on one side of the equation (e.g. America West taking over US Airways and then American). I suspect that this, in turn, was a function of the history of airline bankruptcies which scared off any external "white knight" bidders. I think 6-8 "large-ish" airlines is probably about the right number (versus four now...WN is probably set to overtake AA in the next year in terms of pax count).
#66


Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA Gold, Bonvoy (lol) Titanium/LTP
Posts: 3,360
The real shame is that more than a few mergers weren't so much opportunistic expansion mixed with hedge fund shenanigans (as was the case with the AS/VX merger) but were functionally "rescues" of troubled airlines on one side of the equation (e.g. America West taking over US Airways and then American). I suspect that this, in turn, was a function of the history of airline bankruptcies which scared off any external "white knight" bidders. I think 6-8 "large-ish" airlines is probably about the right number (versus four now...WN is probably set to overtake AA in the next year in terms of pax count).
If you meant United then WN surpassed UA/Continental a while ago.
Obviously all of the above is on passengers and not kilometer pax or revenue. All of the airlines are about twice as large as WN on those metrics.
#67




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
This is what I was glancing at when I pulled data:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...g-us-airlines/
My guess is that there's a hair being split (domestic market share isn't the same as overall ridership, and WN's international footprint is limited to a hatful of Caribbean/Mexican/Central American destinations). The idea that AA has 30m international passengers is a bit of a stretch to me...but it isn't utterly implausible, just a stretch.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...g-us-airlines/
My guess is that there's a hair being split (domestic market share isn't the same as overall ridership, and WN's international footprint is limited to a hatful of Caribbean/Mexican/Central American destinations). The idea that AA has 30m international passengers is a bit of a stretch to me...but it isn't utterly implausible, just a stretch.
#69


Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA Gold, Bonvoy (lol) Titanium/LTP
Posts: 3,360
This is what I was glancing at when I pulled data:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...g-us-airlines/
My guess is that there's a hair being split (domestic market share isn't the same as overall ridership, and WN's international footprint is limited to a hatful of Caribbean/Mexican/Central American destinations). The idea that AA has 30m international passengers is a bit of a stretch to me...but it isn't utterly implausible, just a stretch.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...g-us-airlines/
My guess is that there's a hair being split (domestic market share isn't the same as overall ridership, and WN's international footprint is limited to a hatful of Caribbean/Mexican/Central American destinations). The idea that AA has 30m international passengers is a bit of a stretch to me...but it isn't utterly implausible, just a stretch.
Not sure why that is surprising - between the widebody fleet that makes up about 17% of their total fleet size (at twice the passenger count as their average narrowbody) and large "nearshore" international (Canada, Central, and Northern South America) activity using narrowbodies - 30M seems like a perfectly reasonable number.
#70




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
I think half of the problem is that I conceptually treat Canada as "domestic" since the fare rules to/from the major airports there tend to be the same as regular domestic rules. Then I think of how thin the TPAC routes are and totally forget how busy TATL routes tend to be (even if they're usually split up between US and foreign carriers).
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China




Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,494
DL is giving us (us being the ENTIRE flying public) what we want. We want the cheapest possible seat but will argue and complain about bag fees, change fees, cancellation fees, etc.
we (again not necessarily this forum but the traveling public) asked for the cheapest ticket and this is what we got. If people were not buying these E fares then DL would have gotten rid of the option a long time ago.
we (again not necessarily this forum but the traveling public) asked for the cheapest ticket and this is what we got. If people were not buying these E fares then DL would have gotten rid of the option a long time ago.
This is nothing but DL's way of pushing up normal Y and F awards.
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA the REAL Washington; occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: AS MVPG 100K (Atmos Titanium) / 0.5MM; DL fallen PM (1.58MM = Complimentary Annual GM); AA Gold
Posts: 24,501
screenshot(s) would add credibility ...
#74


Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: MCO
Programs: DL GM, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 4,619

It seems to be limited right now to the lowest level millage fares right now. The uncharge on most routes I saw was between 1,500 and 2,000 miles. However once again as we saw with the cash fares, these new BE fares aren't lowering prices at all and are just replacing the old cheap main cabin fares and essentially creates a medallion tax. I have booked several 5,000 mile MC OW awards for family and friends on MCO-DCA several times in main cabin so I know this to be true from past experience. I'm sure as what happened with cash BE fares that over time the number of miles needed to UG from BE to MC will continue to increase and will be expanded to higher millage fare classes. #KeepDescending
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: KARB
Programs: DL 2MM
Posts: 26,991

