Basic Eco is now available on awards!
Dec 6, 2018 | 12:40 pm
#46
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
Programs: DM life is over 2MM PM now & NW MillionAir Wyndham Rewards Plat -Hotels.com Silver -Accor Silver
Posts: 15,407
Really???? They go into withdrawals if they don't get their pre-flight beverage and you expect them to live without knowing that they get their preferred seat and won't be able to come on here and scream about how they were cheated out of an upgrade????
I don't think so!
I don't think so!
Hahahaha! I never think in terms of PDBs. Certainly seats are important to just about anyone, but, I sure wouldn't pay any extra, in cash or miles for a seat assignment or a CHANCE at an upgrade on an hour flight!
Dec 6, 2018 | 12:45 pm
#47
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
Programs: DM life is over 2MM PM now & NW MillionAir Wyndham Rewards Plat -Hotels.com Silver -Accor Silver
Posts: 15,407
It's not the UG issue that makes the tickets so bad. The bigger issues are:
-you can't select a seat until check in, so you are probably in a middle seat
-You can't make any changes to the ticket at all, so no SDC.
- I would not expect the redeposit benefit to extend to BE award tickets, because they can't be redeposited. standard tickets can, with a fee. In this case, my guess is that DL will say that there is no fee to be waived because the option just does not exist.
-you can't select a seat until check in, so you are probably in a middle seat
-You can't make any changes to the ticket at all, so no SDC.
- I would not expect the redeposit benefit to extend to BE award tickets, because they can't be redeposited. standard tickets can, with a fee. In this case, my guess is that DL will say that there is no fee to be waived because the option just does not exist.
Dec 6, 2018 | 1:04 pm
#48
Moderator: Hyatt, American Express; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, AA EXP, UA Silver, Hyatt Glob, Mlife Noir (=> Marriott Amb), invol FT beta tester
Posts: 21,683
It's not the UG issue that makes the tickets so bad. The bigger issues are:
-you can't select a seat until check in, so you are probably in a middle seat
-You can't make any changes to the ticket at all, so no SDC.
- I would not expect the redeposit benefit to extend to BE award tickets, because they can't be redeposited. standard tickets can, with a fee. In this case, my guess is that DL will say that there is no fee to be waived because the option just does not exist.
-you can't select a seat until check in, so you are probably in a middle seat
-You can't make any changes to the ticket at all, so no SDC.
- I would not expect the redeposit benefit to extend to BE award tickets, because they can't be redeposited. standard tickets can, with a fee. In this case, my guess is that DL will say that there is no fee to be waived because the option just does not exist.
If I ever bought BE* I'd certainly mentally prepare for a middle seat but hope to be pleasantly surprised.
*Probably only on a short haul regional jet where the odds are better and/or the penalty less, depending how you want to look at it
Dec 6, 2018 | 1:16 pm
#49
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta Metro
Programs: Skymiles Gold, Aeroplan, AAdvantage, Hhonors Gold, IH Platinum, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,696
lol. You people . . .
Yes, assuming DL adopts this across the board, it probably does mean that the price of regular Y awards goes up. But do you REALLY think that the price of regular Y awards wouldn't have gone up ANYWAY? At least this provides another option.
I've bought BE fares. I was still able to select preferred seats at the 24 hour mark, and got good exit rows. As a lowly Gold flying out of ATL, I never get upgraded anyhow (and I prefer the exit rows to Plus seats). You still get to use the SkyPriority lanes and boarding. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference between BE and regular Y.
This is really only an issue for flyers who like to change their minds or otherwise need flexibility. That's not how I (and lots of other people) plan travel.
The overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth is really kind of amusing to me.
Yes, assuming DL adopts this across the board, it probably does mean that the price of regular Y awards goes up. But do you REALLY think that the price of regular Y awards wouldn't have gone up ANYWAY? At least this provides another option.
I've bought BE fares. I was still able to select preferred seats at the 24 hour mark, and got good exit rows. As a lowly Gold flying out of ATL, I never get upgraded anyhow (and I prefer the exit rows to Plus seats). You still get to use the SkyPriority lanes and boarding. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference between BE and regular Y.
This is really only an issue for flyers who like to change their minds or otherwise need flexibility. That's not how I (and lots of other people) plan travel.
The overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth is really kind of amusing to me.
Dec 6, 2018 | 1:22 pm
#50
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,649
This is the final straw, I'm through as a DL elite if this is the case. DL can get bent. I'll just suck it up and start taking nonstops ex-DCA on AA. At least that airline is honest and open about how they screw over their customers, and with the new concourse, the biggest issue with AA at DCA (35X) will be gone.
Last edited by Austin787; Dec 6, 2018 at 1:44 pm
Dec 6, 2018 | 1:37 pm
#51
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Programs: DL PM
Posts: 243
lol. You people . . .
Yes, assuming DL adopts this across the board, it probably does mean that the price of regular Y awards goes up. But do you REALLY think that the price of regular Y awards wouldn't have gone up ANYWAY? At least this provides another option.
I've bought BE fares. I was still able to select preferred seats at the 24 hour mark, and got good exit rows. As a lowly Gold flying out of ATL, I never get upgraded anyhow (and I prefer the exit rows to Plus seats). You still get to use the SkyPriority lanes and boarding. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference between BE and regular Y.
This is really only an issue for flyers who like to change their minds or otherwise need flexibility. That's not how I (and lots of other people) plan travel.
The overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth is really kind of amusing to me.
Yes, assuming DL adopts this across the board, it probably does mean that the price of regular Y awards goes up. But do you REALLY think that the price of regular Y awards wouldn't have gone up ANYWAY? At least this provides another option.
I've bought BE fares. I was still able to select preferred seats at the 24 hour mark, and got good exit rows. As a lowly Gold flying out of ATL, I never get upgraded anyhow (and I prefer the exit rows to Plus seats). You still get to use the SkyPriority lanes and boarding. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference between BE and regular Y.
This is really only an issue for flyers who like to change their minds or otherwise need flexibility. That's not how I (and lots of other people) plan travel.
The overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth is really kind of amusing to me.
Dec 6, 2018 | 4:27 pm
#52
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 102,617
-sandwich, sure, but not so drastic that I'm going to storm off or think it will kill the program.
Dec 6, 2018 | 6:46 pm
#53
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Delta Platinum
Posts: 1,730
I don't think it would be a big issue if this was an isolated move. The biggest problem that I have (and I assume many others as well) is that this is just another in what is becoming a VERY LONG sequence of continued devaluation of the program and its benefits. DL makes comments like all the program devaluations were driven by its customers, but its customers are the ones getting screwed over in the process.
Dec 7, 2018 | 1:50 am
#54
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere above the Mason-Dixon
Programs: DL Ham Samich
Posts: 1,698
I’m tired; and exhausted.
A part art of me is in complete wonder that they’re being this aggressive during record profit times, yet the big banks are pegging the chances of a recession within the next two years over 75% - I sure as hell won’t forget
A part art of me is in complete wonder that they’re being this aggressive during record profit times, yet the big banks are pegging the chances of a recession within the next two years over 75% - I sure as hell won’t forget
Dec 7, 2018 | 4:13 am
#55
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA Gold, Bonvoy (lol) Titanium/LTP
Posts: 3,360
The airlines will of course be negatively impacted by a recession, but the real reason for record profitability is record high levels of industry concentration (i.e., lack of competition). For the most part, the major airlines all work together in tacit collusion (the legal kind, unfortunately) to control capacity and ensure high prices. Tacit collusion is hard with 10 major players, but pretty easy with only 3-4. There would be an adjustment period but the airlines would all shrink ASM if market demand fell to keep prices (and, therefore profitability) high. Airlines with higher fixed costs (e.g., airframe depreciation) would suffer more but I think at least the legacies have the discipline to weather the storm (which is unfortunate since it hurts consumers).
Dec 7, 2018 | 9:51 am
#56
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DCA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, DL PM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 6,975
Yeah but AA has a lot of nonstops. So far the benefits that DL provides have made up for the connections, but the gap is narrowing.
Dec 7, 2018 | 10:06 am
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, UA Silver, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Titanium, Nat'l EE, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 16,637
And the SkyMiles grinch delivers more Christmas joy.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Delta will be the innovator when it comes to minimizing (or in MBA speak, normalizing) value customers receive from its loyalty program. UA and AA will follow. There will be exceptions over time, but this trend has been apparent for the better part of this decade. If you’re flying DL for any reason other than its price and product, prepare to take the first blows.
The end state will be fare-based award redemption. We’re already practically there in all but the name. Award fares are filed with fare basis codes that map to revenue booking class codes. We’ve seen advance purchase requirements, and one-ways costing more than round trips. Delta has effectively achieved fare-based redemption on its own metal without calling it that. Boiling the frog slowly.
Just like with cash BE fares, the result of this latest change will not be lower mileage award tickets for all, but rather extracting that many more miles from a subset of passengers who they can squeeze for it.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Delta will be the innovator when it comes to minimizing (or in MBA speak, normalizing) value customers receive from its loyalty program. UA and AA will follow. There will be exceptions over time, but this trend has been apparent for the better part of this decade. If you’re flying DL for any reason other than its price and product, prepare to take the first blows.
The end state will be fare-based award redemption. We’re already practically there in all but the name. Award fares are filed with fare basis codes that map to revenue booking class codes. We’ve seen advance purchase requirements, and one-ways costing more than round trips. Delta has effectively achieved fare-based redemption on its own metal without calling it that. Boiling the frog slowly.
Just like with cash BE fares, the result of this latest change will not be lower mileage award tickets for all, but rather extracting that many more miles from a subset of passengers who they can squeeze for it.
Last edited by javabytes; Dec 7, 2018 at 10:12 am
Dec 7, 2018 | 10:22 am
#59
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,958
lol. You people . . .
Yes, assuming DL adopts this across the board, it probably does mean that the price of regular Y awards goes up. But do you REALLY think that the price of regular Y awards wouldn't have gone up ANYWAY? At least this provides another option.
I've bought BE fares. I was still able to select preferred seats at the 24 hour mark, and got good exit rows. As a lowly Gold flying out of ATL, I never get upgraded anyhow (and I prefer the exit rows to Plus seats). You still get to use the SkyPriority lanes and boarding. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference between BE and regular Y.
This is really only an issue for flyers who like to change their minds or otherwise need flexibility. That's not how I (and lots of other people) plan travel.
The overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth is really kind of amusing to me.
Yes, assuming DL adopts this across the board, it probably does mean that the price of regular Y awards goes up. But do you REALLY think that the price of regular Y awards wouldn't have gone up ANYWAY? At least this provides another option.
I've bought BE fares. I was still able to select preferred seats at the 24 hour mark, and got good exit rows. As a lowly Gold flying out of ATL, I never get upgraded anyhow (and I prefer the exit rows to Plus seats). You still get to use the SkyPriority lanes and boarding. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference between BE and regular Y.
This is really only an issue for flyers who like to change their minds or otherwise need flexibility. That's not how I (and lots of other people) plan travel.
The overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth is really kind of amusing to me.
Dec 7, 2018 | 10:26 am
#60
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,801
I've been elite on a couple of airlines. the only reason the grass is greener is different manure!
And I decided a few years ago to base my travel on price and time not miles. Since I live in ATL that generally does mean Delta since taking longer to get somewhere just to rack up airline points seems unreasonable to me, but YMMV
And I decided a few years ago to base my travel on price and time not miles. Since I live in ATL that generally does mean Delta since taking longer to get somewhere just to rack up airline points seems unreasonable to me, but YMMV