vincentharris

Here is one example that GA citizens had to pay for years until the legislature finally woke up in 2015, even though they want to bring it back now.

http://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/lawmakers-want-give-delta-new-fuel-tax-break/FskY5zaclgmmVdRFBsO0CP/

flyerCO

Can i ask what flight this was? Just curious if it was mislabeled or if this is indeed what they should serve.

Jeff767

Kind be of a poor example of a subsidy and it's certainly not the US government. It's routine to cut deals with states on fuel tax because if the states refuse to go along the airline in question simply tankers fuel into that location and cuts their fuel purchases substantially. I will be willing to bet however Delta's fuel taxes are a order of magnitude higher than Emerites pays!

BRITINJAPAN3

UH, lets see, because this is a forum where people can openly discuss what they like and what they dont, and hopefully share experiences and ask questions...well as long as they only say good things about Delta.

As a non US person who lived in the US for a number of years, I still just cant understand why anyone would fly the big three unless essential ( which I understand it often is ) no decnet airline can get a hold due to previous government subsidies and protectionism , OH yes what the big complain about the ME3 !!

vincentharris

Is the State of Georgia not a government entity? If the state government offers any incentive that can be translated to a monetary benefit be considered a subsidy?

If any tax payer money is being utilized to benefit a private business that is a subsidy. I dont care if it comes from the city, county, state, or federal government. Saying "its certainly not the US government" is splitting hairs.

xliioper

It was a rebate of taxes that DL had already paid. I wouldn't call that a subsidy. Also, all airlines qualified for it (not just DL). Most states and local governments treat commercial aviation fuel as a "business input" which is either not taxed at all, or taxed at a lower rate than non-commercial fuel. This would be in line with the treatment of other business inputs that are used as a part of doing business which are typically not taxed (to prevent tax pyramiding). Georgia is one of the few states that assesses their standard sales tax on commercial aviation fuel.

fly18725

Delta also (quietly) uses export credit, a “subsidy” it routinely and vigorously attacks.

Delta also benefits from tax exempt bonds, government-provided risk insurance, and a host of other infrastructure paid for by taxpayers.

xliioper

Must of this infrastructure is paid by the 7.5% US Excise Tax and $4.10 US segment tax on domestic airline tickets. They are not paid by general taxpayers. There is also the $4.50 PFC charge to pay for airport improvements. Ultimately, these taxes have a direct impact on the amount of revenue an airline collects when you purchase a ticket. Also, there's a massive difference between getting a lower rate on bonds to finance airport improvements which airlines are paying for vs. getting the entire airport construction cost covered by the government. We are talking orders of magnitude differences here. All governments provide a certain level of basic infrastructure support to businesses and no one is questioning that. It's when that support goes above and beyond anything that one would consider typical that it becomes an unfair advantage.

SFO777

As we are when one takes into account the billions of dollars of pension liability that US airlines dumped on the government, and the free get out of jail cards they all received from visits (and in some cases, multiple visits) to the Chapter 11 candy store.

Every airline everywhere gets massive subsidies, in one way, shape of form.

xliioper

Yeah, that evil DL has definitely been skirting it's pension obligations --

http://www.pionline.com/article/2017...-contributions

fly18725

Setting aside the fact that taxes and fees do not fully fund infrastructure, who defines typical?

Outside of the US and EU it is normal for governments to support airlines. Air travel is a critical tool for economic development and it is within a nation’s interest to have a strong flag carrier.

The problem many people have with Delta’s political statements is their hypocrisy. Delta viscously attacks the ME3, yet willingly partners with 2 of the Chinese 3, which get even more subsidies. Some one say the ME3 and Chinese airlines are different because there’s something inherently wrong with running a fifth freedom connecting hub. Yet, Delta is in bed with KLM, an original fifth freedom operator.

Perhaps if Delta focused on running an airline, which it does well, and offered a product more competitive with foreign airlines it wouldn’t have to use lobbyists to fight other airlines.

vincentharris

Ding ding ding we have a winner!!!

DL is a good airline who I wish would actually compete with foreign airlines instead of crying that the new kid on the block pushed them in mud.

DeltaFan4Now

Wow, you take a break from FT for a few days and a reasonable discussion about the ebb and flow of 757 interior comfort takes a really weird turn into excise taxes and Chinese and ME government subsidies!

BRITINJAPAN3

Outside of the US and EU it is normal for governments to support airlines. Air travel is a critical tool for economic development and it is within a nation’s interest to have a strong flag carrier.It is plainly normal also in the US and EU

The problem many people have with Delta’s political statements is their hypocrisy. Delta viscously attacks the ME3, yet willingly partners with 2 of the Chinese 3, which get even more subsidies. Some one say the ME3 and Chinese airlines are different because there’s something inherently wrong with running a fifth freedom connecting hub. Yet, Delta is in bed with KLM, an original fifth freedom operator. Exactly

Perhaps if Delta focused on running an airline, which it does well, and offered a product more competitive with foreign airlines it wouldn’t have to use lobbyists to fight other airlines.[/QUOTE]Exactly

BRITINJAPAN3

But its unfair if anyone else gets any help , !! Just makes me even more determined to avoid the US3,